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The Forum > Article Comments > Miracles: the dead living ones and the living dead ones. > Comments

Miracles: the dead living ones and the living dead ones. : Comments

By Peter Sellick, published 29/6/2023

We are constantly engaged in the struggle of Being, between the hopefulness and peace of the dead living ones and the despairing turmoil of the living dead ones.

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One thing common to all religion is that it divides people.
Where there is forced division, there is immediate difference.
Difference can grow, and lead to frustration and even violence.
So anything which divides people can lead to some kind of disaster.
United we stand, divided we fall?

And it doesn't have to be religion.
Even those who 'follow' different football teams have been known to do more than disagree.
They have resorted to physical violence against the opposing team or its supporters?
Along with natural difference, (we all came out of a different mould) there is an abundance of similarity.
In living life, we need to keep this ample commonality in mind.
Look to see what we can do together: not focus on difference.
Posted by Ipso Fatso, Sunday, 2 July 2023 3:28:27 PM
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Dear Ipso Fatso,

«We are the output of a computer program.»

Please speak for yourself - I am not.

«There are those who cannot get rid of the idea that life is continuous.»

Just to clear any doubt, this isn't something I said.

«That somehow we existed before we were born, and live on after we die.»

Nor this. Neither me nor the author were speaking of existence - nuances matter!

Yet the article claims, that you don't necessarily live even before death!
You seem to support this claim too, because computer outputs do not live.

«People will say that they believe life does continue.
But I say my belief is that they don't believe that at all.»

Fair enough, now you are speaking about yourself and your own beliefs. While you might not believe me, I for one believe you that you so believe.

«But none of this is important.
We live in a real world.
So what is really happening around us is what is important.»

Would you agree that all matter is finite and will eventually be gone, that none shall be left (that is what physicists claim anyway)?
Then what makes anything around important?

«It is something you have reason to think is more likely than not to be true.»

When you wear your socks, is it more likely that you will wear socks again - or more likely that this be the last time you wear socks?

When you take a haircut, is it more likely that you will have another haircut - or more likely that this be the last time you have a haircut?

When you kiss a girl, is it more likely that you will have another kiss - or more likely that this be the last time you kiss a girl?

So when you take birth, which is more likely, that this be the last time you are born, or that there will be more?

«One thing common to all religion is that it divides people.»

Any proof? Any support even, or this is just one more belief of yours?
Posted by Yuyutsu, Sunday, 2 July 2023 10:26:46 PM
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Dear Rhian,

I am very interested in religion but have no religious belief. I have visited mosques, churches and temples of various sorts. Unfortunately, the clergy I talk to in general find it hard to accept that one can have an interest in religion without being a candidate to adopt one. Therefore, regardless of my protestations, they regard me as a candidate for conversion to their religion. When that dominates the conversation it becomes difficult to continue. I am writing my biography and have titled it "Discarding the Spiritual". As a young man my father was an atheist. As he became older he became more and more religious. He wanted me to accompany him on his spiritual journey, but I was going the other way. I identify with MacCulloch as he apparently also has interest without belief.

From his "A History of Christianity"

I still appreciate the seriousness which a religious mentality brings to the mystery and misery of human existence, and I appreciate the solemnity of religious liturgy as a way of confronting these problems. I live with the puzzle of wondering how something so apparently crazy can be so captivating to millions of other members of my species. P. 11
Posted by david f, Monday, 3 July 2023 12:07:41 AM
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Hi David,

A couple of miracles;

Prof Marcia Langton once said, I think it was around the time of the bicentenary; "The MIRACLE is we (Aboriginal people) are still here.

A little bit more light-hearted; "Johnny came into the pub the other day and shouted a round of beers, it was a MIRACLE!"

I to am interested in religions without being religious, I actually go to Male Church Fellowship sometimes (Yes they still separate the boys from the girls in 2023). I tend to be "controversial" during discussions at times, making statement like; "I believe on the evidence, Saul of Tarsus (St Paul), was the true founder of Christianity." They find that hard to accept, and some of the other "controversial" things I say, I think most are comfortable with orthodoxy, not me. A recent discussion centred around "the nature of God" My contention was there may be more than one Christian God, as God's persona had changed over the centuries from a spiteful, vengeful being to a loving kind being, which seemed to be at odds with the previous God. Possibly God was just moving with the times. What is your opinion on the persona of God as presented by Christianity over the ages.
Posted by Paul1405, Monday, 3 July 2023 8:18:55 AM
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Dear David F.,

To answer MacCulloch, "I appreciate the solemnity of religious liturgy as a way of confronting these problems. I live with the puzzle of wondering how something so apparently crazy can be so captivating to millions of other members of my species":

As most mammals spend much time cleaning their fur, what is surprising about people taking time to cleanse their minds?
Posted by Yuyutsu, Monday, 3 July 2023 9:00:32 AM
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Dear Yuyutsu,

You wrote:

"To answer MacCulloch, "I appreciate the solemnity of religious liturgy as a way of confronting these problems. I live with the puzzle of wondering how something so apparently crazy can be so captivating to millions of other members of my species":

As most mammals spend much time cleaning their fur, what is surprising about people taking time to cleanse their minds?"

Descending into superstition is cleansing the mind?
Posted by david f, Monday, 3 July 2023 9:35:10 AM
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