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The Forum > Article Comments > Miracles: the dead living ones and the living dead ones. > Comments

Miracles: the dead living ones and the living dead ones. : Comments

By Peter Sellick, published 29/6/2023

We are constantly engaged in the struggle of Being, between the hopefulness and peace of the dead living ones and the despairing turmoil of the living dead ones.

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The bottom line is that, to my knowledge, no credible person has ever returned from the grave to inform the rest of us just what is there.
Miracles are scientifically and medically non existent. Everything has a cause.
Posted by ateday, Thursday, 29 June 2023 2:49:26 PM
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Thank you Peter for another wonderful article.

In summary, this particular universe can be seen as a sandbox where objective causality through the laws of physics is the rule - yet this sandbox is just one tiny fragment of our experience.

When trying to explain miracles, there are three prevalent views:
1) The laws of physics can be broken.
2) There are no miracles because the laws of physics cannot be broken.
3) The laws of physics and the laws of spirit are not mutually exclusive, so the operation of the one does not exclude the operation of the other, just like 5+1=6 does not contradict 3×2=6.

What is common to all the above three views, is the opinion that only what happens in this physical objective sandbox matters: that opinion can be called "materialism".

- but why should that be the case?

We all know that our experience is not limited to this particular sandbox because in our dreams, for example, we experience different universes where physics and causality need not necessarily apply. In the case of dreams we are often (but not always) able to remember them, but just consider how often we could have other experiences of other universes which we cannot remember? Why should this one particular universe be more important than all others?

---

Dear Ateday,

«The bottom line is that, to my knowledge, no credible person has ever returned from the grave to inform the rest of us just what is there.»

Well "credible" depends on whom you give credit to, which is quite personal in nature.

Now how would you expect anyone to remember and tell you what is beyond the grave when a functioning brain is clearly needed to remember anything?

Claiming "there is nothing" just because one cannot remember is typical of the ostrich burying its head in the sand saying "what I cannot see is not there".
Posted by Yuyutsu, Thursday, 29 June 2023 3:28:04 PM
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You are caught in a web of superstition and fear?
It is hard to break out of it?
But you must.
An analogy might be those who become addicted to gambling.
They go on and on, hoping for better times.
And they cannot break away from that hope.
But we all know it will never happen.

We are a computer program.
Life starts when we have awareness.
Our brain becomes aware of our senses perhaps.
When the brain switches off, there is no more awareness.
There is no output. There is no life. We are dead.
We have ceased to exist, completely.
Our physical remains are best disposed of quietly.
Posted by Ipso Fatso, Thursday, 29 June 2023 4:36:34 PM
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Dear Ipso Fatso,

«We are a computer program.»

If that is not a superstition then what else could be?

«Life starts when we have awareness.»

Worldly life, you mean. Biological life starts a bit earlier.
Neither is the kind of life that the author was referring to.

«Our brain becomes aware of our senses perhaps.»

A piece of matter cannot be aware of anything, neither do our dolls and teddy-bears.

«When the brain switches off, there is no more awareness.»

When the brain switches off, we are no longer aware of this world.

«There is no output. There is no life. We are dead.»

Our bodies are then dead.

«We have ceased to exist, completely.»

Within this particular world, alright.

So what's the big deal about it?
It is only a big deal if we think of this world as a big deal,
if we think that it is more important than any other.
I referred to that attitude in my previous post, as materialism.

«An analogy might be those who become addicted to gambling.
They go on and on, hoping for better times.
And they cannot break away from that hope.
But we all know it will never happen.»

It is rather the materialist who hopes for better times, who is addicted, who feels s/he cannot live without them.
Time, better time, worse time, is just a feature of this world.
Before coming into this world no one hoped or cared about times.
Once one dies they no longer experience time and its ravages either,
they no longer hope, they no longer care about this world.
It is only in between, for that flicker of time on earth, that fools become attached to what is surely fleeting, then suffer when it fails to fulfill their unrealistic expectations.

«Our physical remains are best disposed of quietly.»

Yes, as far as I am concerned they could be chucked into the green rubbish bin without further ado. My family, however, feels differently.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Thursday, 29 June 2023 10:12:44 PM
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Thanks Peter for another great article. I always enjoy your pieces even when I sometimes disagree with them (not with this one, though).

Alan B
Actually Matthew 14:22–33, Mark 6:45–52 and John 6:16-21 report Jesus walking on water. Which doesn’t necessarily mean it actually happened, of course.
Posted by Rhian, Friday, 30 June 2023 1:03:34 PM
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I'm reminded of one of my favourite quotes from bible scholar John Dominic Crossan:

“My point, once again, is not that those ancient people told literal stories and we are now smart enough to take them symbolically, but that they told them symbolically and we are now dumb enough to take them literally.”
Posted by Rhian, Friday, 30 June 2023 8:38:31 PM
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