Dear Rhian,

I doubt that Crossan knew what was in the minds of the people who wrote those stories. There are many versions of those stories as there are many translations, and the translations have been informed by the minds of the people who made those translations.

https://religionnews.com/2012/12/12/did-isaiah-really-predict-the-virgin-birth/

Among other changes, the new translation tweaks an Old Testament text — Isaiah 7:14 — that many Christians consider a prophecy about Jesus’ birth. In Matthew’s Gospel, for example, an angel cites the passage to convince Joseph to accept Mary’s mysterious pregnancy.

But in the new Catholic Bible, the prophet’s prediction and the angel’s words don’t quite match anymore. The word “virgin” has been replaced with “young woman” in Isaiah 7:14.

Few Christian doctrines are as tightly held as the belief in Jesus’ chaste conception. It’s mentioned several times in the Gospels, cited in the earliest creeds and considered essential evidence of Jesus’ divinity by many Christians.

In the original Hebrew of Isaiah there was nothing about a virgin giving birth. Alma, a young woman, not bethulah, Hebrew for virgin, was predicted to give birth. The new Catholic translation more accurately translates the original than previous translations.

Many heroes of pagan legend were born of a virgin. The first translation of Isaiah was the Greek Septuagint which translated almah as the Greek parthenos which means virgin to make the birth of Jesus conform to pagan legend.

Dear David

Crossan is controversial, but he does have an extensive record as an academic studying the historical context of Jesus’ life and society. There is no-one better qualified to understand the thinking of first—century Palestinian Jews.

Apart from that, I agree with all of your post. I don’t think Isaiah predicted Jesus’ birth to a virgin, though I still enjoy hearing the prophets read in the season before Christmas. Part of the issue was indeed translations. By Jesus’ day most Jews read the bible in Greek not Latin, so Matthew and Luke wove a virgin birth into their birth narratives, because that is what they read in the Septuagint.

https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2020/12/18/jana-riess-lo-virgin/
(I think you’d enjoy that book, by the way).

Many prophesies also pointed to the Messiah’s birth in David‘s hometown of Bethlehem, which is why both the birth narratives contain (quite different, and incompatible) accounts of how a boy from Nazareth came to be born in Bethlehem.

The key question, I think, is whether Matthew and Luke actually believed Mary was a virgin, or expected their readers to believe it. I don’t think that is the case. That is my understanding of Peter’s point about “miracle as metaphor”, and Crossan’s point about “symbolic” stories. It is only the more literal modern mind, which holds things to be either factually accurate or false, that struggles with stories that point to deeper truths through symbol and metaphor. That’s not to say the scriptures are entirely fictional, but their truths are not based on being reliable eyewitness accounts of historical events.

Dear Rhian,

You wrote: "It is only the more literal modern mind, which holds things to be either factually accurate or false, that struggles with stories that point to deeper truths through symbol and metaphor. That’s not to say the scriptures are entirely fictional, but their truths are not based on being reliable eyewitness accounts of historical events."

There is not one literal modern mind as there was one unitary ancient mind. I don't think it is legitimate to lump all ancients together any more than it is to lump all moderns together. Over two thousand years ago the circumference of the earth was measured with a fair degree of accuracy. In the current time many people in different cultures believe in some form of messianic myth. I believe the main difference between ancient and modern culture is the development of more advanced technology. The different ways in which humans see the world hasn't changed. Seneca, the Roman said: “Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful.” I think it was true then and is true now.

Dear Rhian,

I have read and enjoyed:

https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2020/12/18/jana-riess-lo-virgin/

I am an old man of 97. I came to Australia because my Australian wife wanted to come home when I retired. She died March 26, and I am a stranger in a strange land. However, in one way I am not a stranger in a strange land. I find a similar range of opinions in Australia to the range in the US although the proportions of the population holding those different opinions vary from those in the US.

Just got this on 'Facebook'

"Within 7 hours from now, God will destroy all sickness in your body. There will be a healing miracle"

Me thinks, I'll cancel Mondays doctors appointment.

Dear David

Sorry to hear about your loss, it is a terrible thing to lose a loved one. And I hope you have friends/family here, so you are not completely a stranger in a strange land.

Yes, there are varieties of worldviews today and doubtless were in the past. But nowadays, among both some atheists and some believers, there is a belief that miracles can only be true if they describe actual events; or that the ancients believed that miracles must explain the origins of things they didn’t understand but we do, like the development of the cosmos of the role or evolution in creating the amazing variety of life on earth. Because of my interest in Christianity I have studied something of the origins of the bible and social and religious thought in Jesus’ time and society, but have very little idea about most other ancient cultures.

I think you are right about the spectrum of views being similar in Australia and your homeland, but the proportions at different points varying. I migrated from the UK decades ago, and would say the same of there. My guess is that more Americans than Australians identify as Christian, they are more likely to be active churchgoers and they are more likely to make a more literal reading of the bible than Australians. The situation in the UK is probably closer to here. On most social and political questions there is probably a similar situation – the same overall range, different proportions at different points. The one issue on which the USA seem out of step with most rich western societies is gun control, and there are historical reasons for that.