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The Forum > Article Comments > New York Times and Washington Post redraw middle-east boundaries > Comments

New York Times and Washington Post redraw middle-east boundaries : Comments

By David Singer, published 4/6/2021

The New York Times and the Washington Post have once again engaged in Israel bashing - spewing out fake maps and phony history about Israel.

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Yes, Dan. You're right. Simply put, both the Palestinians and the Jews are all descended from Abraham. And ethnically the same people. Albeit with different cultural and religious belief.

The Jewish claim to a holy( this land is mine, God gave this land to me) land is founded in unprovable myth and legend. And at increasing odds with the archeological evidence.

Evidence which would destroy the legend of an exodus from Egypt and all that transpired along the way in favour of a massed revolt by local slaves? Who then simply replaced the old hierarchy and took the properties, herds and wealth of former masters/owners? [Very little has changed?]

And without moving very far from anywhere, let alone wandering in the wilderness for forty years?
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Sunday, 6 June 2021 11:08:28 AM
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LEGO and co.

There was a time when conventional wisdom held that the world was flat! However, no amount of unshakable conviction made it so! And your practice of labelling those who hold a different more fully informed view to you, just doesn't make them Jew-hating anti-Semitics or terrorist sympathisers! Which is where you lot always go, when the facts get in the way!
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Sunday, 6 June 2021 11:22:10 AM
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God Lego, take a breath!

(Let’s call it) The Kingdom of Jerusalem has the unenviable reputation as the most unstable Kingdom on earth.
It is by nature of what it represents, most definitely subject to religious turmoil.
It is also a buffer zone between the great empires of the East and the West.

As opposed to some group think on OLO, Israel State was forged at the end of an Israeli Terrorist bomb aimed at the Pommies. They are terrorists, no different!

The Jews were given “special” blessings by the Western conquerors in 1948, as a token for the suffering, which not a person on earth has not had shoved down their throats for the last seventy years. I think it’s beyond time to move on.
After all, our own ANZAC’s are being given scant regard, as a comparison.

And finally, I don’t personally feel affection any more or less towards Muslims or Jews.
Israel is a prize to be taken by the most deserving, (read fanatical).
That’s how it will pan out. The historic winner of the prize has always been the most bloodthirsty and disreputable, and looking at Israel, what has changed?

Dan
Posted by diver dan, Sunday, 6 June 2021 2:06:38 PM
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To Alan B. I labelled Diver Dan an anti Semite due to his last post, which put a series of negative racial stereotypes on Jews, and which claimed that Jews did not deserve to own "the holy land", because too many of them are secular. Your friend DD comes across to me as the worst kind of religious bigot, who despises other religions who do not worship his two Gods, or even worse, despises anyone who refutes the existence of his two Gods.

The Jews have had a continuous civilisation in Jerusalem for around 3000 years, 1000 years before Christianity existed, and 1,400 years before Islam existed. The Jews have been largely turfed out a few times but they have always returned, because they see it as the birthplace of their religion. The Muslims know it too, and since their prophet absolutely hated Jews, and he passed on this hatred to his followers, it is extremely important for the spread of Islam, for Muslims to never allow the Jews to take back what they have valid reason to believe is their ancestral homeland. That was why the Muslims put a dirty great mosque on top of the second temple. That is there way of saying that "this land, conquered by Islam, is now Islamic forever. The Jews here are finished."

That this religious reason is the real reason which the Arabs use to justify their demand for the total extermination of Israel, can be seen in some other territorial disputes around the world. The "Russian" enclave of Kaliningrad is actually Prussia. Kaliningrad is not only part of Germany, it is considered by Germans as the heart of Germany. But are the Germans firing rockets at the Russians? Or putting bombs in Russian airliners? Or sending suicide bombers into Russian restaurants? No. Because the Germans know the Russians will never give it back, and the Germans just want peace.

The Muslims don't want peace, they want a war where they can die fighting for Islam. And you support these war mongering religious nutters, and call yourself a social progressive?
Posted by LEGO, Sunday, 6 June 2021 4:07:54 PM
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Lego

You just painted yourself into a corner on that post.

If you want example of a bunch of religious nut cases, Jews would leave Muslims in the shade.
Here is where the paint in the corner is wet: Since you argue for Jewish sovereignty over Jerusalem, using the argument of continuing occupation over three thousand years, then it’s ok by that logic, to hand over Australia lock stock and barrel to Aboriginals.

They have roamed around the Australian continent for fifty thousand years. It’s an illogical argument you make.
History gives prizes to conquerors of nations. That’s how it works.

If you brand me as an anti semite on the one hand and a Muslim Acolyte on the other over this statement from a previous post Viz:

#And finally, I don’t personally feel affection any more or less towards Muslims or Jews.
Israel is a prize to be taken by the most deserving, (read fanatical)#

then you either need new glasses, or to rethink your conclusion.

Dan
Posted by diver dan, Sunday, 6 June 2021 6:17:29 PM
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I think you've all got it wrong.
- It's not a competition over which religion is the least harmful.

You REALLY want to start out with your feet planted firmly on the ground, to have a rational discussion on this.
I said this on another thread.

I think there's pro's and cons to all religions.
I think there's pro's and con's to everything.
I don't think any of the religions are perfect.
They're all flawed in their own way, on a basis of their own merits.
They all contain potentially dangerous ideology and beliefs;
People can take their religious beliefs too far, whatever religion, whatever belief;
- And justify doing terrible things for those religions and beliefs.
Same with political beliefs, environmental beliefs, racial beliefs, sexual beliefs or whatever;

If you really want to be serious about religions.
You have to look at each of them INDIVIDUALLY
- ON THEIR OWN MERITS, The good, the bad, and the ugly.

You want to identify the good and bad parts in all of them.
Only then can we have a fair discussion about them, based on the merits of what the religious scriptures of each individual religion tells us.
Then look at how they're connected.

Jews and Christians seek the Messianic age.
But the Jews Messiah and the Christians Messiah aren't the same.
The Muslims call the End Times 'Malhama', Christians call it Armageddon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Malhama_Al-Kubra
An apocalyptic great battle to occur in the end times according to Islamic eschatology. Its prophesied to be the most brutal battle in human history. It generally corresponds to the battle of Armageddon in Christian eschatology, and occurs soon before the emergence of the Dajjal (Antichrist). (aka false Messiah)

End Times By Sheikh Imran Hosein
http://youtu.be/c3JsdEpgDbs

What do you think the Rebbe:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebbe
and all the jews there are singing the Tzivos Hashem anthem
- 'We Want Moshiach now'
- They want the Messiah. Listen.

We're all told to be tolerant of religions but in truth there's all this religious stuff playing out ending in a huge war, according to all believers of Abrahamic religions.
http://youtu.be/WnhMntRHqpo
Posted by Armchair Critic, Sunday, 6 June 2021 9:14:49 PM
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