Not-Now.Soon, I can agree with you in your overall theme.

What I would probably question is the part about God's vengeance.

Though I would welcome the intervention of a 'father figure' to smite a wrong do-er, I feel that any punishment due to these miscreants may not be administered in a timely fashion.

I also believe that God's will is not to influence singular infractions and therefore these people would go unpunished and continue their vial acts with impunity.

I take strength from the most significant of examples as lead by Jesus, in that the people were given a choice, to either free Jesus or a murderer. They chose to free the murderer.

That one act alone left me, as a young man, with such a feeling of disgust and rejection of both mankind and religion.

I know, I have postulated this decision many times over the years. And yet, human kind has not disappointed me in my condemnation of it.

Human kind has slowly reverted back to the era of orgies and sodomy and generally a lifestyle of disgust and disgrace to their own detriment.

The notion of discipline is a distant memory when we had social and cultural boundaries. Today we have none.

Our leaders have not changed for as long as people have been on Earth. They are still a very select group of 'snakes' which I maintain should be gathered up and also be put to death.

I see no good in the future of mankind. If we don't stop and take stock of our own volition, then we, as a species, will ultimately commit ourselves to death

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Dear AL TRAV,

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You wrote :

« … you mask the real Australia by not acknowledging it's true colours and historical sub-culture »

I don’t recall having done that anywhere on this thread, AL TRAV. Quite the contrary, I systematically verify the facts before posting them. But I have no idea how many facts there are about Australia. Hundreds, thousands, millions ? As you know, we are limited to 350 words per post on this forum, so I only post those which I consider both pertinent and important to the discussion in hand.

It is possible that there are other facts which you consider more or just as pertinent and important as the ones I post. That is a question of personal evaluation and judgement. It does not mean that I do “not acknowledge” that the others also exist. Nor does it mean that they, alone, represent Australia’s “true colours and historical sub-culture”. I think it is more complex than that. If there are facts that you consider to be more or just as important, please feel free to post them.

I understand that human nature is such that certain individuals feel alienated, for one reason or another, from mainstream society, in just about every country in the world. Almost all of them have multiple sub-cultures, counter-cultures and a so-called underground.

I am conscious of the fact that all of us do not appear to live in the same world with the same set of values, symbols, ideals, tastes, opinions, beliefs, philosophies, world-views and aspirations. Each sub-strata of society also has its own set of rules and laws.

Though I situate myself clearly in the mainstream of both Australian and French society, I readily acknowledge that both countries have their multiple historical and contemporary sub-cultures, counter-cultures and so-called undergrounds - which, I must confess, I do not frequent.

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(Continued …)

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(Continued …)

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I have never been attracted to any sort of Mafiosi or criminal networks, “bikies”, anarcho-punks, anarcho-syndicalists, beatniks, skinheads, Sharpies, Doomsday Peppers, Bra Boys, or subversive political activists of any sort, and I am totally ignorant of their activities – if that is what you have in mind.

But that does not prevent me from expressing my personal opinion on any subject that I consider important, especially if it happens to be in total opposition to what may be deemed to be politically correct.

So far as justice is concerned, I consider that everyone should assume responsibility for his acts. And as you mention the death penalty, I consider, for example, that society has the right to deprive anybody of his life if he is proven guilty of an “atrocious” crime by a democratically constituted court of law. However, I see no justification for disrespect, mistreatment, pain or cruelty. I consider that the court’s decision should be carried out as humanely as possible, in the best possible conditions of euthanasia that modern science can allow, preferably, in a warm, cosy environment.

Naturally, I am also in favour of euthanasia in exactly the same conditions for those who wish to end their lives voluntarily, for whatever reason, irrespective of their state of health. This, of course, entails a certain number of preconditions in terms of safeguards in order to protect the vulnerable from ill-intentioned persons in their entourage.

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To ALTRAV.
Fair enough.
May I thank you again for getting me thinking about the place of same sex attraction in society.
I recall a time when sex between two consenting homosexuals was a crime in most states of Australia, although fewer and fewer were prosecuted until homosexuality was no longer considered a "wrong" punishable at law.
I respect your opinion despite you not presenting a plausible reason for thinking so.
Best regards....

To ALTRAV.

It's much easier to offer advise about a group you don't hate. This is a lesson I just observed while trying to best word my response to you. However instead, I've found your views to the miscreants you've described, to be the same actions I would like to do to the terrorists I see in the news. I'm sorry that I have no merrit to offer based on being better at following what I want to say. For this please accept my apology. I do not mean to be a hypocrite. We need to trust God, even in our anger and our need to seek justice. God gave governments the authority to punish criminals, and He can do the same in each of their lives indivually setting them up for a fall. But that's not the only option. Like us, God loves them as well.

Therefore we should do as directed even at our own expense. God can take care of us or allow us to return home with Him. But to save our enemies because God loves them too, whike trying to protect those we love or protect ourselves. That is a battle we must all face, and I think by following Jesus's teachings, and trusting God through them we will be better for it, then if we tried to handle it on our own in spite of what the bible says.

Again I wish I wasn't a hypocrite in this advise. Still working out the idea if loving my enemies on the enemies that really matter. Hope you understand what I'm saying even while I struggle to do the same.

Happy New Year, ALTRAV.

To BANJO.
May I challenge your support for the death penalty?
Should Australia re-introduce the death penalty, and unless the accused pleads guilty, a person's guilt or innocence is decided by a jury. In Australia I believe judges are appointed to the "bench" and democracy does not come into it.
So, my arguments are:
A. Juries are notorious for getting things wrong. Whilst there is an appeals court an accused can appeal to, the appeals court will not change a juries decision unless they have overwhelming evidence of a miscarriage of justice.
B. Many innocent but convicted accused have been released from prison after new evidence has come to light (in recent times via DNA testing which was not available at their trial.
Sadly, many innocents have been put to death, only to find later they were not guilty.
Taking A and B together strongly suggests the judicial system is not perfect(if only in a very small number of cases).
So, do you carry out the death penalty, knowing there is a possibility you are wrong?
Or do you choose to avoid this possibility by not having the death penalty?