Nature is the unmoved mover = mother nature made it , it's just there. Just a little bit more of rational thought would assist .

Infinite regress presumes that the definition for "God" in this setting is replaced by a thing within nature , effectively non-God . So it's assumed God is subject to what it's alleged he made , in the "God" paradigm.

Is there some notion using logic that space-time moved laws of science into being ? It needs more logic than the false-premise of re-defining "God" .

AJ Phillips.

[I already did by listing other possible explanations. Perhaps you could provide me with a scenario that you do not think has a rational explanation?]

None of the explainations were enough. However at the time I was trying to address several points. I would rather let you choose one of the events I described and we can explore your explaination instead of trying to go into detail over all of the experiences. With limited space I'd rather hash out one described event at a time, so that more detail can go into it. If that does not sound satisfactory then I'll move on to the Sermon on the mount. I read the article you referenced. I assume you wrote it or agree with all of it? (Bacause you didn't highlight any specific parts I figure it's one of those two options). If that's the case I plan on giving what I understand on it a section at a time. Then in a seperate post I can try to address some of the critisms from the article that I can explain.

[tripping people up is a good way to get them thinking and investigating further. You wrongly assume that there is always an element of deceit.]

Experience says otherwise. There has always been an element of deceit or maliciousness in it when someone tries to trip up another person. I've never seen it used to teach someone, but instead to tare someone down. Knock em down a peg so to speak. Perhaps you might think it is justified. To teach a lesson? Or that they had it coming? However you justify it, don't fool yourself into thinking that tripping people up is for their benifit.

[One good example of tripping someone up is to ask a Christian (who has boldly asserted that his god is omnipotent) if God is so powerful that he can create a rock so big he can’t lift it. This forces them to revise their belief, which is why we now have a ‘maximally powerful’ god; it’s why the Cosmological Argument was revised to become the Kalam Cosmological Argument (which is still flawed, just less so).]

Counter that. Why would God, who is full of wisdom, want to make a rock that was too heavy for Him to lift? If He made an unmovable rock then it's purpose is to not be moved. It would not be His intent to lift it if He meant it to be immovable. Philosophical arguments aside this is not practical and serves no purpose. There's no reason to argue a philosophical "what if" senerio, to counter real life that actually does exist.

The way Human anatomy is built. The way the natural world works. The way God interacts in the world (from prayer to other awesome events). The magistic night time sky. These are the things show God's greatness from His design, to His power, to His actions with us even though we are so small in the grand scheme of things.

Not_Now.Soon,

If an explanation is rational, then is it enough. Period.

<<None of the explainations were enough.>>

They were all enough. Even when there isn’t a rational explanation, assuming that an event is the result of a god is still not justified.

Just how rational do you think an explanation needs to be, by the way, and how do you gauge it?

<<I would rather let you choose one of the events I described and we can explore your explaination instead of trying to go into detail over all of the experiences.>>

I figured you could pick an example so that there was no risk of you thinking that I just picked the least convincing one. I wasn’t just referring to your answered prayers, either, by the way. But, since you insist, let’s look at the first alleged answered prayer at: http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=19198#341544

This could be rationally explained by psychophysiology, or it could simply be a co-incidence that your adrenal glands kicked in after you prayed (our bodies eventually release adrenaline to keep going if we hold ourselves awake for long enough).

That’s plently.

<<I read the article you referenced. I assume you wrote it or agree with all of it?>>

Yes, I agree with all of it.

<<There has always been an element of deceit or maliciousness in it when someone tries to trip up another person.>>

There isn’t in the example I gave. Perhaps we should just move away from that terminology, if it’s concerning you that much? You’re attaching a lot more to it than I am, and all of it negative.

<<Why would God, who is full of wisdom, want to make a rock that was too heavy for Him to lift?>>

That is a deliberate sidestep and beside the point.

<<If He made an unmovable rock then it's purpose is to not be moved.>>

But if He can’t move it, then He’s not all-powerful.

<<There's no reason to argue a philosophical "what if" senerio, to counter real life that actually does exist.>>

Yes, there is. Do you not understand the concept or purpose of a hypothetical?

"to make a rock that was too heavy"
You feel that God works in
Jerusalem Gardens Stone Works, Ltd
Industrial Zone Har-Tuv B
Beit-Shemesh 99000, ISRAEL.?

The universe spacetime is curved , so they say , in infinite distances so energy extends to infinite with infinite inputs possible . This stone would fill everything , with all mass and all energy and has only its own gravity . Can you see how impossible it is to measure anything there? By definition , if God made the whole thing , he is external to it which has no external aspects , being curved . So infinite mass and energy in that non-place are zero , and there's no mass and no energy . Your question is false to the term "God" and false to spacetime.

AJ Phillips.

[If an explanation is rational, then is it enough.]

If the explaination fits the sitution, then it is enough. Or at least worth consideration. But that part is probabley more my fault then yours. In trying to address several points and offer differing examples of answered prayers, I kept the discriptions short.

For your benifit for rational explainations. Here is some more detail.

The first event described was an accident and coming out of a coma. That can be reasoned away possibly with a good doctor, except for one part. I'm told that on a follow up check on an MRI the doctor heading the results told my mom that if he didn't see me in front of him, he would say these are the scans of a person who didn't make it.

The second example we've explored already. That I felt a reaction from God while praying. The two explanations you gave are that prayer acts as a relaxation technique, or that it was all in my head and feeling God to be there is of no merit. That also does not fit because I was in a depression that I couldn't shake on my own. I tried and tried then eventually prayed a request concerning it. God answered with a feeling that was not mine.

The third example similar to the second you have disregarded as no merit because it can be thought of a trick of the brain. Just in my head. However it is quite a trick. In moments after the prayer my anger after a failed relationship was just removed. Again it was a foreign feeling, but this time it was not an emotional feeling. A physical feeling that I've concluded as God helping clean house of my anger that was attached to that relationship. The result was exactly that. Once moment watching myself grow in anger, moment by moment. Stewing in it. The next moment and ever since no anger associated to that person. The rational would need to be somewhat in-depth to explain both the timing and the actual result.