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The Forum > Article Comments > The third person of the Trinity: the Spirit > Comments

The third person of the Trinity: the Spirit : Comments

By Peter Sellick, published 5/10/2017

Calling the trinitarian entities 'persons' is obviously metaphorical since they are not persons as you and I are persons.

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Dear Banjo,

«Am I right in interpreting this to mean that “god is simply a figment of the imagination” ? If so, I could not agree more!»

Well gods, with a small-'g' are a figment of our imagination, yet they can be quite useful as representations of God to direct and inspire our fickle minds to move towards God.

«If, on the other hand, you are convinced that your description of “God” is based...»

Description?? I would be stupid indeed to attempt to describe God when the human mind cannot even begin to imagine Him(/Her/It).

«they were considered to be their legal property»

Unfortunately for them, such male-chauvinist-pigs who think of women as property, are unable to see God in women and so they needed to depict their gods as masculine. Indeed the Jews had to depict a harsh disciplinarian male as their god, but this was the best that these barbaric tribes were able to have at the time: it was better than nothing and it did carry them that much along the road to God.

Ancient Middle-Eastern mythology was already aware of the feminine aspect of God, but it seems that the ancient Jews mostly suppressed it. This improved when Jesus reminded his disciples of the feminine Holy Spirit, the comforter, which can roughly be described as the feminine aspect of God's footprint in the world.

«because you believe that the “Holy Spirit” provides “wisdom, prosperity and strength”, you both consider that its gender is necessarily female.»

In Genesis 1:2, "and the Spirit of God hovers above the waters", the verb "hovers" is in the feminine tense!

I already pointed the similarity between the Christian understanding of the Holy Spirit with the confluence of the three Hindu goddesses which respectively provide wisdom, prosperity and strength.

Towards the end of the road, just as the wealthy cannot enter heaven with their gold, even the wise cannot recognise God with their minds. All concepts must be abandoned at the door, including masculinity and femininity, but until then concepts may be useful.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 9:47:51 AM
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Yutsie: This improved when Jesus reminded his disciples of the feminine Holy Spirit,

I surmise that this was because Jesus exposed himself to other Religions. Especially Hinduism (though not strictly a Religion) & Zarathustraism which have Trinities. Most ME Religions have Trinities, even the Egyptians.

Yutsie: All concepts must be abandoned at the door

That's 'cause ya dead. In the words of the WHO, "This is The End..., my friends, the end." From "The Apocalypse Now"
Posted by Jayb, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 11:02:04 AM
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If the texts are taken as gospel , then Adam had free choice in naming animals . Then probably the early Hebrew was a variable dialect of Semitic related to the Aramaic which Jesus spoke. So can we conclude that God selected the vocabulary and gender of nouns? Consistently the terms expressed are simple everyday names and the idea of "wind . breath" is precise and informative. The concept of "father" and "son" is accessible to everyone even children and clearly different from "wind" which is certainly not "goddess" or "mother" and so on.
Posted by nicknamenick, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 2:05:00 PM
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nnn: If the texts are taken as gospel , then Adam had free choice in naming animals.

Adam didn't write down any names of anything. Pity.

nnn: Then probably the early Hebrew was a variable dialect of Semitic related to the Aramaic which Jesus spoke.

What language did Adam speak. He probably only needed a few words seeing there was only Eve & him. Like, "Woman!... cook food!... now!" & Eve to Adam. "I've told you & told you & I'm telling you again,put the bloody dinosaur out of the cave & clean up those little mistakes it's done. Now!"

Oh! I know, they spoke "God."
Posted by Jayb, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 3:15:54 PM
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No Jayb anything can be debated. The premise is that the text is the topic.
Posted by nicknamenick, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 4:10:43 PM
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.

Dear George,

.

You wrote :

« Western Europe, apparently on its way to Islamisation, is a good example of what happens if a culture sees its own religious roots as merely figments of imagination thus creating a religious vacuum that another culture, another religion, is filling in »
.

Indeed, I understand that Islam is progressing and expanding around the world at a much faster rate than most other religions, but, apparently, not for the reason you indicate. Those in the West who see “God” (rather than their “religious roots”) as a figment of the imagination, are turning away from religious practice altogether.

They are not just switching from a non-Islamic religion (Christianism, Judaism, etc.) to Islam. They are switching from a non-Islamic religion to no religion at all. Islam is not “filling in” a gap left by other religions, as you suggest.

As Prof. Riaz Hassan of the University of South Australia pointed out in an interview at the 15th Annual International Conference on Islamic Studies (AICIS) in Manado, Indonesia, in September 2015 : "in 50 years’ time, Islam will be the largest religion in the world". This expansion will be due to the combination of three factors :

1. The higher birth rates in the predominately Muslim (underdeveloped) countries
2. The receding birth rates in the predominately non-Muslim (developed) countries
3. In the predominately non-Muslim (developed) countries religion is less and less practiced

As I am sure you are aware, the largest Islamic population in the world today is in Indonesia, but in 50 years’ time, due to the differential in population growth, Indonesia will slip back to third place as follows :

1. India
2. Pakistan
3. Indonesia
4. Bangladesh

Here is the link to to Prof. Hasan’s interview :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCyHxyltxjI

I see no reason to believe that "Western Europe, is on its way to Islamisation" as you suggest. Indications are that it is simply turning away from religion and placing its faith in its own capacity to face-up to reality and forge a safe and pleasant future for its future generations, with confidence.

.
Posted by Banjo Paterson, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 12:25:55 AM
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