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The Forum > Article Comments > Like it or not, Islam is a problem > Comments

Like it or not, Islam is a problem : Comments

By Gary Johns, published 6/6/2017

As a consequence, like it or not, Muslims are more susceptible to Islamisation than non-Muslims.

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Grateful? You want evidence, motivation, context? Evil is evil, independently of motivation or context. Stop trying to minimize malevolence! Those accusations are standard, not because they are the most important issues that Non-Muslims have with Islam, but because they are just several of the hundreds of actions, issues and doctrines specific to Islam that cause concern to people who see Islam as a religion of hate and violence. Note that this impression is not just derived from Islamic texts, but from the every day actions of Muslims around the world.

I have read most of the primary sources of Islam. Obviously you have not. Maybe you are as ignorant as those “outraged” Indiana Muslims mentioned in the article – I hope not. Too bad Muslims aren’t outraged by trucks killing families, little girls being knifed or pregnant women being split open.

So, Grateful, what do you want to talk about? The Billboard? Do you think it untruthful? Lacking context? Oh yes, anything but asking the important question: are those things true?

1. Slave owner –Narrated Ali ibn AbuTalib: A slave-girl belonging to the house of the Apostle of Allah committed fornication. He (the Prophet) said: … inflict the prescribed punishment on her….blood was flowing from her, and did not stop... He said: Leave her alone till her bleeding stops; then inflict the prescribed punishment on her. Sunan Abu Dawud 38:4458.
Sad said, "Kill their (Banu Quraiza men) warriors and take their offspring as captives (slaves), "On that the Prophet said, "You have judged according to Allah's Judgment," Sahih Bukhari 5:59:447. Actually there are hundreds of references in the Hadith to slaves taken and owned.

2. Rapist - Having overcome them and taken them captives, the Companions of Allah's Messenger seemed to refrain from having intercourse with captive women... Then Allah, Most High, sent down regarding that:" And women already married, except those whom your right hands possess (ie. they were lawful for them). Sahih Muslim 8:3432. Maybe you should read Quran 4:24. See if you understand simple words.
Posted by kactuz, Thursday, 8 June 2017 12:55:21 PM
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3. Married 6-year old - Narrated 'Aisha:that the Prophet married her when she was six and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Sahih Bukhari, volume 7, Book 62, No. 64. Also Muslim 008:3309. There are 5-8 verses that give Aisha’s age as 9 when the marriage was consummated. Note that she was playing on a swing with dolls when she was summoned. Also Allah says girls don’t have to reach puberty to be married. Quran 65:4.

4. Beheaded 600 - Look up the words “Banu Qurayza”. Mohammed had the men and pubescent boys beheaded and the women and children enslaved. Spare me the usual excuses; just remember that Islam’s prophet murdered these people, even innocent boys, in cold blood.

5. Thirteen wives - Narrated Qatada: Anas bin Malik, The Prophet used to visit all his wives in a round, during the day and night and they were eleven in number. Sahih Bukhari 1:5:268. Actually Mohammad had more than 13 wives. Check Islamic sources.

6. Murder and torture - I am getting tired. Read Quran 7:4. Can you understand the implications of that verse? Now search “list of Mohammed’s expeditions”. Do you think the dozens and dozens of attacks by your prophet were to deliver flowers? He looted, murdered, tortured, raped and enslaved men women and children? About torture -- look up “Kinana”. Better yet, consider how many kinds of torture Allah commands Muslims to do in the Quran (not including the ones he/she does personally).

Well, Grateful, are you happy now? Learned anything? This little list doesn’t even scratch the surface of the brutality and hate found in your religion. Consider the pregnant woman whose belly was split open, with your dear prophet’s blessing. Want a reference?

For all of this and more, because of the evil so often done by Muslims based upon the teachings of Islam, and worse of all, because of the indifference, dishonesty and willful ignorance of Muslims, Islam deserves nothing but contempt
Posted by kactuz, Thursday, 8 June 2017 12:57:48 PM
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Dear Joe,

Grateful has often pointed to the teachings of his Sufi Sheikh, Nuh Keller, on http://untotheone.com

I read some of the articles there and listened to some of Keller's recorded lectures and verified that he opposes all forms of violence and coercion.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Thursday, 8 June 2017 3:08:03 PM
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Kactus
Thank you. I'm pleasantly surprised that you have attempted to support your accusations with proof, although you have failed to reference any of the eminent ulema to demonstrate the validity of your insuations/interpretations and the implications for Islamic teachings.

You'll have to be patient for a reply because it is the month of Ramadan which means each evening is preoccupied with prayer, the Quran and joining with family and friends to break fast.

However, just now as I was reading the Quran, I came to the following verse. It is an injunction on how Muslims should conduct themselves in their relationship with Allah, with those less fortunate and with those of other faiths. So if you find myself or any other Muslim infringing on these injunctions then you have every right to call us to account.

So here are the verses and I'll try to respond to your post as soon as practically possible...
Continue..
Posted by grateful, Thursday, 8 June 2017 11:04:24 PM
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An example from the Quran on how Muslims should conduct themselves with Allah, those in need and those of other faiths:

"Quite a number of the People of the Book wish they could turn you (people) back to infidelity after ye have believed, from selfish envy, after the Truth hath become manifest unto them: but forgive and overlook, till Allah accomplish his purpose, For Allah hath power over all things.  And be steadfast in prayer and regular in charity: and whatever good ye send forth for your souls before you, ye shall find it with Allah: for Allah sees well all that ye do. And they say: "None shall enter Paradise unless he be a Jew or a Christian" Those are their (vain) desires. Say: "Produce you proof if he be truthful." Nay, -whoever submits his whole self to Allah and is a doer of good, -he will get his reward with his Lord; on such shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve."(Quran 2:109-112)
Posted by grateful, Thursday, 8 June 2017 11:11:27 PM
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Kactuz says: "Grateful? You want evidence, motivation, context? Evil is evil, independently of motivation or context."

Not providing context means that people will place events in a context that they are most familiar: their own. This means events are taken out of context. You cannot remove context and motivation if the purpose is to understand.

Furthermore, its a tautology to say "evil is an evil" and not very useful for making judgements. Australia commits an evil in turning away genuine asylam seekers who arrive by boat but has made the judgment that it is necessary to avoid a greater evil.

So noone, including yourself, would accept the statement of yours.

Stop playing games and give us some context and motivation for the events you have identified. You've declared yourself to be a hadith scholar of sorts so lets see how scholarly you really are.
Posted by grateful, Monday, 12 June 2017 10:52:40 AM
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