The National Forum   Donate   Your Account   On Line Opinion   Forum   Blogs   Polling   About   
The Forum - On Line Opinion's article discussion area



Syndicate
RSS/XML


RSS 2.0

Main Articles General

Sign In      Register

The Forum > Article Comments > Days of our lives > Comments

Days of our lives : Comments

By Najla Turk, published 16/2/2017

I am your ordinary, middle-class, working mother that happens to be a practising Muslim who profoundly opposes terrorism and is ardently seeking harmony.

  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. ...
  6. 29
  7. 30
  8. 31
  9. Page 32
  10. 33
  11. 34
  12. 35
  13. ...
  14. 41
  15. 42
  16. 43
  17. All
To AJ

You are now trying to justify your attitude that the individual members of white extremist organisations can be condemned individually, but that the individual members of a non white extremist organization can not be condemned individually. I think that most people would find such a premise potty, especially coming from somebody who claims to be anti racist.

Because of your unwillingness to write a reasoned argument who's chain of logic we can all examine, I am forced to do the job myself by joining together all of your disjointed ramblings and sneery one liners, which give some indication of your muddled thought processes.

You appear to be implying that Nazi and Klan values and attitudes are monolithic, and every tenet of whatever unwritten ideology they possess is universally accepted by every individual member to exactly the same degree. Which is odd when you admitted that you are not even sure of what it is that they believe in. I think that most people would laugh at that one Most people can understand that within every group of people united by an ideology that has ever existed throughout human history, there has never been universal acceptance of that ideology. Schisms, dissenters and heretics always appear.

There is no "fundamental difference" between any extremist organisation, they are all in fact similar in their authoritarianism, hostility to outsiders, and intolerance of dissent. What applies to Nazis and Klansmen not only applies equally to Muslims, it applies to every group of people united by an ideology, especially an extremist ideology. Therefore, if individual Nazis and Klansmen can be condemned by their group associations, then Muslims can too. Your attitude is a clear double standard anchored in racial discrimination.

To summarise. I may not put people into "boxes", but you can. I may not prejudge and stereotype people, but you can. Muslims do not all think exactly alike, but all Nazis and Klansmen think exactly alike, even though you are not even sure of what it is they believe in. Whites may be condemned by their group associations, but non whites can not
Posted by LEGO, Friday, 24 February 2017 4:48:34 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Jayb,

I wasn’t aware that there was an actual program. Can you link me to some information on it? Also, which town is it that you’re referring to in Victoria?

When I speak of intolerance, I refer to intolerance on both sides. I’m aware that radicals aren’t usually mentally ill. In fact, they could be better described as people of perfect faith. However, ensuring that mental illness and depression levels are kept down certainly couldn’t hurt, both directly and indirectly.

<<So keeping the pressure below radicalisation is a win for us?>>

If the alternative is creating more radicals, yes. Over time, however, secularism will further tame (and has already somewhat tamed) Islam, as it has tamed Christianity. Young Muslims are already leaving the faith in droves.

--

LEGO,

“Now”, as if I’ve been forced to change tactic. I like that.

<<You are now trying to justify your attitude that the individual members of white extremist organisations can be condemned individually, but that the individual members of a [non-white] extremist organization [cannot] be condemned individually.>>

You have not yet demonstrated that skin colour has anything to do with it either.

<<I think that most people would find such a premise potty, especially coming from somebody who claims to be [anti-racist].>>

I would too, yes.

<<Because of your unwillingness to write a reasoned argument who's chain of logic we can all examine, …>>

I already have. You keep trying to skirt around it.

<<… I am forced to do the job myself by joining together all of your disjointed ramblings ...>>

How about you try asking me some questions? Now that’s a Novel idea! You won’t, of course, because you would be more compelled to accept my answer, and you don’t want to do that. You need to presume to tell me what I do and do not believe because your rehearsed schtick only works if I’m the caricature Lefty that you need me to be.

<<You appear to be implying that Nazi and Klan values and attitudes are monolithic, …>>

At least one of their values is, yes.

Continued…
Posted by AJ Philips, Friday, 24 February 2017 7:38:21 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
…Continued

The same can’t be said for Muslims, though.

<<Which is odd when you admitted that you are not even sure of what it is that they believe in.>>

I only need to be sure of one belief that that all hold: the superiority of whites.

<<Most people can understand that within every group … there has never been universal acceptance of that ideology.>>

Correct. However, they always share one commonality that binds them under the same name, and for Muslims, this is something more benign such as the belief in a god.

<<Schisms, dissenters and heretics always appear.>>

Yes, however, dissenters never break away and form another group over a tenet that would render their new group redundant. Which is why we don’t see ‘Libertarians for Authoritarianism’ or ‘Feminists for the Unequal Treatment of Women’.

<<There is no "fundamental difference" between any extremist organisation, they are all in fact similar in their authoritarianism, hostility to outsiders, and intolerance of dissent.>>

Correct.

<<What applies to Nazis and Klansmen not only applies equally to Muslims, it applies to every group of people united by an ideology, especially an extremist ideology.>>

Agreed. I would never demand special treatment for one group.

<<Therefore, if individual Nazis and Klansmen can be condemned by their group associations, then Muslims can too.>>

No, because Muslims don’t all hold dangerous beliefs. This is where you keep slipping up.

<<Your attitude is a clear double standard anchored in racial discrimination.>>

You haven't demonstrated this yet.

<<I may not put people into "boxes", but you can.>>

No, no one should.

<<I may not prejudge and stereotype people, but you can.>>

No, no one should.

<<Muslims do not all think exactly alike, but all Nazis and Klansmen think exactly alike, …>>

No, no two people think exactly alike. I’ve ready said this.

<<Whites may be condemned by their group associations, but [non-whites] [cannot]>>

It depends on whether or not they share a harmful universally-accepted belief. Skin colour has nothing to do with.

You have a real comprehension problem there, don't you LEGO? Either that, or an honesty problem.
Posted by AJ Philips, Friday, 24 February 2017 7:38:27 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Dear Jayb,

Staffies and pit-bulls are two separate breeds and
they do have a bad reputation. But I think it's as
much to do with their owners. Animals are individuals
and I think it's very much about nurture over nature.

Dear Is Mise,

What do I think of Keysar Trad?

I don't know the man. However if you're referring
to his statement about violence as a last resort
against women. That should have been given in its
entirety. You can Google The Australian newspaper
on that. I can't be bothered - suffice to say that
Mr Trad has released a statement explaining what
it says in the Koran and he categorically condemns
all violence against women. But I suspect that you
already knew that.

Cheers.
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 24 February 2017 10:37:57 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Dear Jayb,

I forgot to add that I've seen the movie "la la land,"
It's actually a musical about two people trying to make
it in Los Angeles. One's a musician, the other, an
actress. Both succeed. Great film - having worked and
lived in Los Angeles for close to ten years - the film
brought back so many good memories. My two sons were
born in Los Angeles.
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 24 February 2017 10:42:19 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Hi Banjo,

I did read your post, accurately I think. You have this paragraph, which is wrong on two counts:

"The action of the legendary Jesus no doubt rendered retaliation less aggressive and more in adequacy with the gravity of the crimes committed, but modern justice continues to represent a regression, in many respects, compared to restorative or reparative justice, due to the historical influence of harsh 7th century BC Abrahamic law and justice."

So you seem to suggest that he was promoting a punitive regime, just one that was more humane. He wasn't.

Your second point, about Abrahamic law just doesn't stand any scrutiny. Human societies tend to be retaliatory. Abrahamic religions are no more nor less than most others of the time. You didn't want to get on the wrong side of the Romans. And even in recent times there are plenty of tribal examples of retaliatory justice - look at the ritual spearings as punishment still occurring in some contemporary aboriginal communities, and bizarrely approved of by some judges in their judgments.
Posted by GrahamY, Friday, 24 February 2017 12:03:50 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. ...
  6. 29
  7. 30
  8. 31
  9. Page 32
  10. 33
  11. 34
  12. 35
  13. ...
  14. 41
  15. 42
  16. 43
  17. All

About Us :: Search :: Discuss :: Feedback :: Legals :: Privacy