Hi Leoj,

This is a fascinating article on a topic which must be very, very difficult for Muslims. I wish them well in their long struggle.

Cheers,

Joe

Banjo, I think you have a severe comprehension problem. Jesus doesn't say to take an eye for an eye or a tooth for a tooth. He says that is what has been said but "I (as in "him") say do not resist an evil person".

Christianity does not subscribe to Old Testament systems of punishment. It's just undeniable. And it is sad to see people pretending that it does.

To AJ.

I really do hope that your friend GrahamY is reading our exchanges. He sent you to OLO to sort me out and all you can do is keep displaying your racist double standards towards white people. He must be so disappointed in you.

Graham seems like a smart bloke and I am sure he can understand that the principle of equality means exactly that. Regardless of whether any group of people united under any ideology call themselves whatever name, then those people who insist that Equality is some sort of fundamental human right are obligated to judge all groups of people in exactly the same way. Especially when the Leftist Equality fanatics who claim to be absolutely opposed to racism are faced with judging different groups with similar "demonstrably false and dangerous beliefs", but with different skin colour.

Your problem is, that if you insist upon equality for all, then there is nothing that applies to Muslims that does not apply equally to Nazis and Klansmen. All of them are groups of people united under their own particular, widely accepted belief system, and each of them identifies themselves with particular names. All of them seem to have beliefs which most reasonable people would label "false", and beliefs which are "dangerous" towards other groups of people.

Like every group of people united under any ideology that have ever existed throughout human history, among those who call themselves "Muslims", Klansmen" or "Nazis", there are those who are completely fanatical about total adherence to the central core values of the group. Then there are the majority who will adhere to those principles in different degrees, or they may agree with some values and attitudes, and disagree with others. Deviancy and heresy is common to every group that ever existed under any ideology.

All of these groups can be judged as dangerous to somebody. Nazis to Jews. Klansmen to Negros. Muslims to non Muslims. That judgement, usually applied by the groups intended victims becomes a prejudgement when assessing threat levels. Prejudging every individual within a group as dangerous becomes that group's stereotype

Joe (Loudmouth),

Difficult alright, "There is a simple reason why most Muslims prefer their White Knights instead of their critics: They believe that Islam is perfect and infallible.

Most Muslims believe that Islam as a religion can never be faulted for anything, and instead the fault lies with the way believers practise it."

Where mild incrementalist change - such as Muslim school girls being allowed to dress like other girls - is implacably refused by Muslim parents, those parents are making it very hard indeed for their children, girls and boys.

It is not the same as passing on mindful meditation as the family tradition/inheritance, now is it?

Hi LeoJ,

No, it's not. Islam seems (to this atheist) to be the ultimate religion-as-pathology, with its in-built bar on any revision, criticism or disobedience. At least in Judaism and Christianity, and in Hinduism and Buddhism, on can interpret and bend, or even ignore, precepts. Islam gives rote-learning a bad name on that score.

Marx had some very harsh words to say about the dead hand of Islam, particularly in India. It's probably all on-line now, but I doubt that any Leftist would dare to read it.

Of course, there is not much that outsiders can do to reform Islam, it has to be done from the inside. I fervently wish reformers well in trying to re-educate 1.5 billion people.

Particularly, of course, the men - after all, what's not to like if you are a sleaze-bag bloke ? Four wives, as young as you like, all doing your bidding, no disobedience, easy divorce at any time, you get half their property on divorce, and all the kids after even the youngest has been weaned. So women do their thing, fetch and carry, give birth, suckle, then they can piss off, back to their families in disgrace. So, is Islam a religion of fear for women, or what ?

Oh hello, Yasmeen, I didn't see you there :)

Cheers,

Joe

From the papers,

"A SENIOR Muslim leader has said using violence against women is a “last resort” for men

President of the Australian Federation of Islamic Councils Keysar Trad described beating women as “step three” in a process of dealing with issues in relationships, after counselling and buying chocolates or “taking her out on a dinner”.
http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/tv/muslim-leader-says-violence-against-women-a-last-resort-for-men/news-story/c45b0b7ec96a203d34936daaecabbf8b

Is the taxpayer contributing to his income?

What does Rosie Batty say about that and 'feminist' Islam?