So I would ask you to go out and find a Muslim (or a pretty [or ugly] Muslimah) in the flesh & blood. Not some nebulous, virtual presence. Ask them about the Buraq. If the Muslimah are like those I have met, they will answer you despite your insistence on a Wahhabi-style Islam being the only true, the only applied interpretation. I don't any of them will know what the Buraq is, and those who do, will treat it like Rudolph.

Syria and Iraq were secular, under the Ba'ath party. Now there is a lot of blood on the hands of the Ba'ath party, no bath is going to wash it off. Ha ha, I joke, I joke. Afghanistan was included because I was rolling on a rhyme scheme and I regret that got in the way of a clear argument. Basically this, imagine a Middle Easterner (Arab, Parsi whatever) who is too busy for reading. They might learn that the failed governments of Syria and Iraq were secular and the governments of Saudi Arabia and Iran are not. So they may assume there is something constructive and helpful about religious government. I would vehemently disagree because the multi-cultural code, of the separation of powers.

You say:
"Where are the Secular nations in this lot. There are none. Apart from Saudi Arabia which is one of the worst Human Rights Violators on the Planet."
This is a lie, either from ignorance or intent and I simply do not care which. They have religious police there.

Me: Simples. *saidlikemeerkat*

Grateful: if you are to say that Islamic teachings support something you need to provide evidence of Islamic teachings
Grateful: you need to provide evidence of Islamic teachings and not interpretations of ideologues

Well I give up. What more can you want than Esteemed Middle Eastern mullars reciting the Koran on Utube. Calling for the destruction of Kaffirs. Saying it’s OK to have sex with your goat. Stoning women to death because a husbands friend screwed her. I suppose it would be a good way to get rid of your wife, get your neighbour to screw her. She gets stoned to death & he gets to pay retribution to the husband & they’re both happy.
By the way you never replied about how happy you would be with you husband screwing you neighbours Slave Girl. I take it by your lack of reply that you wouldn’t mind. Do you get to watch?

Grateful: ISIS are Muslims. ISIS are the ones who declare any Muslim who disagrees with them as out of Islam and so in their view ripe for slaughter.

& Sunnies & Shite, etc, etc.

AL: Joan Vollmer. died because people literally interpreted daemonic possession,
AL: "“Christianity in Africa is under attack by Gays and Christians in Europe and the Americas,”

Idiots. There are some areas of the Christian World, especially in Europe, that are still living in the 13th Century & some Christian Fundamentalists in America that are totally Bonkers, but that has more to do with the Deep South of America, definitely weird.

AL: he said. “Africans do not need Europeans to teach them what the Gospels say

Most of Africa is still Tribal in Essence. Any excuse to kill a rival Clan or Tribe regardless of the Religious affiliation.

It’s not wholesale slaughter or the wanting to murder anyone who is not Islamic by the entire Stupid Religion of Islam. Then there are stupid individual Christian fundamentalists who believe that the World is only 6000 years old.

I see they arrested 7 moslems going to blow up Christmas in Melbourne. How do you feel about that?

Jayb: What more can you want than Esteemed Middle Eastern mullars reciting the Koran on Utube. Calling for the destruction of Kaffirs.

Honesty.

You know this is not evidence. Anyone can recite verses on the Utube and add their interpretation which is why i don't bother watching them.

I will take you seriously when you demonstrate serious study. This requires serious reading referring to the ulema who are the source of the traditional teachings of Islam.

The Tafsir I have used in previous posts to refute some of your claims has been by one of the most eminent scholars of the 20 Century, Mufti Muhammad Shafi Usmani. These were originally broadcast in Urdu to a Pakistani radio audience in the 1960s (maybe 1970s). So they represent Islamic teachings.

You can find his commentary here:  http://www.maarifulquran.net/index.php/maarifulquran-english-pdf

If you can come back to me with commentary that support your interpretations then I'll take you seriously.

In Islam there is a crisis of authority and the first victims are those youth who are being brainwashed by wahabbi doctrines which have no place in traditional Islamic teachings.

In fact, what you are witnessing today is the result of 2 centuries of attacks on the authority and influence of the ulema (Islamic scholars) by authoritarian rulers in the MENA region because the ulema have traditionally been the ones to whom Muslims have turned when faced with injustices of tyrants (see references to Bulliet in a previous post). The vacuum of ignorance has been filled by the likes of Al Qaeda and ISIS.

To support this case I'll give you an example of a REAL jihad base on the work of John Kiser, author of Commander of the Faithful, The Life and Times of Emir Abd el-Kader A Story of True Jihad http://www.truejihad.com/pages/true-jihad.php.

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Kiser writes:

<<It would be profitable to dwell at some length at one of the most important figures of recent history, the Emir Abd el-Kader, leader of the Algerian Muslims in their heroic resistance to French colonial aggression between 1830 and 1847. For his conduct is a perfect exemplification of the principle enshrined in this verse, and, in general, he stands forth as a powerful antidote to many of the most insidious poisons afflicting the body politic of the Muslim world in our times. For his response to a truly despicable enemy‚ if ever there were one‚ was never tainted with the hint of injustice; on the contrary, his impeccable conduct in the face of treachery, deceit, and unspeakable cruelty put his civilized adversaries to shame. His enemy, the French, who initiated imperialistic aggression against the Muslims of Algeria, were guilty of the most horrific crimes in their ‚mission civilisatrice,‚ crimes that were in fact acknowledged as such by the architects of this mission, but justified by them on account of the absolute necessity of imparting civilization to the Arabs. This was an end which justified any means, even, ironically, the most savage.

Bopichon, author of two books on Algeria in the 1840s, states the underlying ethos of the French colonial enterprise as follows: Little does it matter that France in her political conduct goes beyond the limits of common morality at times; the essential thing is that she establish a lasting colony, and that as a consequence, she will bring European civilization to these barbarous countries; when a project which is to the advantage of all humanity is to be carried out, the shortest path is the best. Now, it is certain that the shortest path is terror. Terrorism well describes the policy carried out by the French. >>

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<<Testimonies abound as to the atrocities perpetrated by French forces. Bopichon, author of two books on Algeria in the 1840s, states the underlying ethos of the French colonial enterprise as follows: Little does it matter that France in her political conduct goes beyond the limits of common morality at times; the essential thing is that she establish a lasting colony, and that as a consequence, she will bring European civilization to these barbarous countries; when a project which is to the advantage of all humanity is to be carried out, the shortest path is the best. Now, it is certain that the shortest path is terror. Terrorism well describes the policy carried out by the French. Testimonies abound as to the atrocities perpetrated by French forces.

An evidently remorseful, if not traumatized, Count de Herisson recounts in his book La chasse a l’homme (Hunting the man) that “We would bring back a barrel full of ears harvested, pair by pair, from prisoners, friends or foes,” inflicting on them “unbelievable cruelties.” The ears of Arabs were worth ten francs a pair and their women remained a perfect prey. Official French reports eventually registered with shame these monstrous acts. A Government Inquiry Commission report of 1883 frankly admitted: “We massacred people carrying [French] passes, on a suspicion we slit the throats of entire populations who were later on proven to be innocent; we tried men famous for their holiness in the land, venerated men, because they had enough courage to come and meet our rage in order to intercede on behalf of their unfortunate fellow countrymen.” >>

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<<How did the Emir respond to such unbridled savagery? Not with bitter vengefulness and enraged fury but with dispassionate propriety and principled warfare. At a time when the French were mutilating Arab prisoners, wiping out whole tribes, burning men, women, and children alive; and when severed Arab heads were regarded as trophies of war‚ the Emir manifested his magnanimity, his unflinching adherence to Islamic principle, and his refusal to stoop to the level of his “civilized” adversaries by issuing the following edict: Every Arab who captures alive a French soldier will receive as reward eight douros. “Every Arab who has in his possession a Frenchman is bound to treat him well and to conduct him to either the Khalifa [Caliph] or the Emir himself, as soon as possible. In cases where the prisoner complains of ill treatment, the Arab will have no right to any reward.“ When asked what the reward was for a severed French head, the Emir replied, twenty-five blows of the baton on the soles of the feet. >>

So returning to your "Esteemed Middle Eastern mullars reciting the Koran on Utube calling for the destruction of Kaffir". What are their names? What makes them "esteemed"?

So why do you want to insist your "esteemed Middle Eastern mullars" (who you cannot even name!) represent the teachings of Islam when there is so much evidence to the contrary?

How do you account for the "men famous for their holiness in the land, venerated men" who were tried "because they had enough courage to come and meet our rage in order to intercede on behalf of their unfortunate fellow countrymen."? Are you saying they were not following the teachings of Islam?

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