Loudmouth has failed to support his assertions with scholarship. He would if he could, but obviously he cannot. Hate and bigotry seem his main motive....and not a squeak from the other loudmouths.

Just read the aforementioned scholars (Bernard Lewis or John L. Esposito) and you will have your views on Islam, the Prophet, slavery etc debunked.

Hi Grateful,

I appreciate that you have an enormous task in front of you, should you choose to take it on. Perhaps you won't. Either way, you have my sympathy.

Forgive me, what assertions in particular ? Terrorist attacks ? Murders ? Beheadings ? Rape and enslavement ? The desire to conquer the entire world ? Which atrocity do you have in mind ?

Grateful, terrible things are happening. They are ACTUALLY HAPPENING. I don't have to make them up. And who is responsible for those atrocities ? With respect, I would suggest that members of your 'religion of peace' may have something to do with them.

Perhaps they are perverters of Islam, betrayers, corrupters of its basic principles ? Or are they faithfully applying those basic principles in their vile acts against innocent people ? What do you reckon ?

Your choice: condemn these terrorist attacks, or come out in support of them. Any mealy-mouthed yadayada about the US in Iraq, etc., would be seen as nothing more than excuses for the utter brutality of ISIS.

Your choice, Grateful.

Joe

"
Perhaps they are perverters of Islam, betrayers, corrupters of its basic principles ? Or are they faithfully applying those basic principles in their vile acts against innocent people ? What do you reckon ?"

I reckon the former. "Refuting ISIS" by Shaykh Muhammad al-Yaqoubi
http://masud.co.uk/refuting-isis-shaykh-muhammad-al-yaqoubi/

Loudmouth,

Did you watch Q&A on Monday? I was very impressed by Prof. Andrew McLeod, who made excellent points throughout the show, such as this one:

"What I do need to say though is, and Christophe has said this is a couple of times, we are in war. They attacked us. But what we need from our national leadership now is to determine who is the 'them' and who is the 'us' and there are two broad choices. It is us westerners against them, all of Islam, or is it us moderates of all religions, against them, radicals of all religions? And we have organisations in this country, like Reclaim Australia, who are really falling into the trap of Islamic State, who are trying to create the us Westerners against them, all of Islam.

If we fall into that trap, we’re saying we want to fight with 1.6 billion people, whereas if we define the us as all moderates of all religions, Judaism, Christianity, Islam, against radicals of all religions, it’s a much smaller number to fight and a much more effective number to fight. So what we’ve got to do at the beginning, Terry, to come to your question, we need to make sure, as a country, the 'us', is moderates of all religions, against 'them', the radicals of all religions."

I chanced upon this interview and found it an interesting, backgrounding set of historical and political issues encompassing 'ways-foreward' observations in an ISIS infected world...

"Rise of ISIS & Collapse of a Culture with Philippe Assouline"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJ6NiM-F6jI

[FYI 40 mins.]

Thanks Toni,

I suspect that defeating ISIS militarily will be just Round One in a very long-running struggle: military, political, social, personal, ideological, military, economic, military, political, ideological and military again and again, etc., etc.

This struggle will still be going long after I'm gone, because, in my view, it is a struggle between the values of the Enlightenment, of the West if you like, and those of the Koran, in all their various and conflicting manifestations, including those espoused by ISIS - and by those prattling about Islam being 'a religion of peace'. Yeah, right.

Am I suggesting some sort of 'Clash of Civilizations' ? Yes. A 'civilization', in this sense, encompasses one's culture and all of its underlying values which one grows up with, the lessons from stories and parables, the social relationships within the family sanctioned by one's cultural practices, and the resultant outlook on the world, and one's place in it.

The values of the West, imperfect and certainly incomplete as they may be, include observance of the rule of law, equality before the law, equality of men and women, openness in opportunity structure, and the right to question, analyse and re-assess one's outlook and values. That includes, even necessitates, the right to question the values of the Enlightenment, i.e. to question the very values which sustain the society that we are in - and hopefully come up with even stronger support for those precious values.

So let's be honest: what does 'true' Islam stand for ? That Allah owns all the world, that his will must sooner or later be extended over all the world, by one means or another, that men and women are most certainly not equal, that extermination is an option for non-believers and the only way to 'live in peace', to 'share all the world', is if all humanity either surrenders (submits, conforms, whatever nicer word you like to use) to Islam or is exterminated. Except, of course, young women, who must serve the angels of Islam while they still have their looks.

[TBC]