Hi Suse, your comment is very defensive of feminism, but having read some of your other comments I suspect that you're not really a typical feminist in the sense of having a strong ideological adherence to the dogmatic model that Killarney, for example, likes to advocate. You are essentially a woman who is proud of her personal achievements and you tend to see criticism of "feminism" as an attack on your own credibility as a professional, causing you to react defensively.

Similarly, a lot of men are becoming very defensive in light of the frequent denigration of the male role that has been a feature of feminist dialectic, which seeks to replace a "patriarchy" with a "matriarchy", simply by putting women into roles that have traditionally been filled by men, without seeking to find other roles that are equally as socially valuable for men as mothering is for women. In other words, men are receiving a message that they are to some extent simply not as valued as women are.

When people feel devalued, they are less likely to seek help when they are in trouble. This is one of the main arguments given by feminists to support the need for outreach and promotion of social campaigns against domestic violence: that women who are in abusive relationships sometimes become convinced that nobody cares enough to help them.

It is exacerbated to some extent perhaps by a male ethic of self-reliance, but if you are suggesting that we should devalue self-reliance, I think you are very much on the wrong track.

Furthermore, as a man, I can tell you that especially for young men, there is very little evidence that women (other than Mum and Nanna) have any sympathy for young men who are anything other than "tough". That may be changing, but if so, very slowly. It is not other men who are holding men back from seeking help, it is women and sadly, most women have no idea they're even doing it.

Gee Craig Minns, you will have me sobbing shortly for the dreadful times men are experiencing in our community!
Are you forgetting that many women have loved male partners, or that they have brothers, fathers and sons? Why would most women not want the best for their men?

The truth is that most women DO want the best for their men, but they also refuse to carry on as lesser humans in society than the men.
The problem is the few men who don't like this new idea of equal rights with women at all!
Which man are you?

What I am mostly reacting to here is the cheap bigotry and disinformation that blames this situation on feminism – and this is the only issue I am interested in addressing on this thread.

It’s not feminism, but the patriarchal culture, that has let men down.
Posted by Killarney, Saturday, 7 March 2015 10:46:38 PM

Christine Stobla wrote how womens studies miseducate women, she had three categories.

Errors of Fact
Errors of interpretation
Sins of Omission .

Eeva Sodhi, Nojustice.info
Perceptions are not Facts

<Justice Canada instructs its research contractors to "make a careful choice about which
<indicators are going to be applied , because you want the indicators to reflect the
<gendered approach you are developing"

This is still applicable today.

Researchers into domestic violence who choose to not support the feminist dogma were threatened, Erin Pizzy had the bomb squad checking her mail.

How Domestic Violence advocates use fear and violence
http://pandora.nla.gov.au/pan/38333/20051023-0000/www.kittennews.com/cgi-bin/kn_opinion/opinion6c38.html?topic=999927

<· Dr. Steinmetz told me that she received verbal threats and anonymous phone calls
<from radical women's groups threatening to harm her children. And when the ACLU
<invited her to speak on domestic violence, it received a bomb threat

@Craig: '[Suse] I suspect that you're not really a typical feminist in the sense of having a strong ideological adherence to the dogmatic model that Killarney, for example, likes to advocate.'

You got that, Suse? Good feminist; Bad feminist. You're the good feminist and I'm the bad feminist. Divide and conquer. Bully Tactics 101.

Craig

When on earth did calling someone's opinions and observations 'dogma' or 'ideology' ever facilitate a calm, rational discussion? Like many on this board, you are blind to your own anti-feminism triggers, which make you oblivious to your own EXTREME and UNNECESSARILY provocative anti-feminist rhetoric whenever a gender thread occurs on OLO.

The problems in the DV system are overwhelmingly the result of ongoing inadequate funding and cuts to DV spending. The system cannot even adequately address the needs of the majority female victims, let alone the minority male victims. In trying to hijack the issue by claiming that the problems in the system are all the fault of 'dogmatic, ideologically driven, second-wave feminist theory' is pathetic and childish.

And no doubt you wonder why I can't be bothered treating you with respect.

Sheesh, you girls are so defensive it's like trying to have a conversation with a cactus.

Killarney, there is no such thing as a "good feminist" or for that matter a "bad feminist". Feminism was a reasonable response to a pretty lousy situation for some (but by no means all) women. Sadly, it has degraded into just another form of political dogma that allows people to apply labels so they don't have to actually think about things.

In some cases, the labels allow people to devalue those who they have labelled to such an extent that they don't even see them as human any longer.

Fascism 101, Killarney.

Suse, I'm not suggesting that women don;t want what's best for their men, I'm suggesting that what they think is best is often wrong and I'm afraid your first sentence in the response to my comment shows why.

If you don't allow yourself to listen, you will never hear.