@ Suse

>So forgive me if I have trouble feeling sorry for these men you seem to want to save in the court system.....

What have I said that makes you think I want to save guilty men?

Has it not occurred to you that some of "these men" might in fact be innocent in regard to the allegations made against them and have unjustly been separated from their children. I fully understand your "trouble in feeling sorry for these men". I guess such callousness from you is only to be expected.

Is it not supposed to be that both that the accused and the accuser should be subject to fair and due process in the courts? Or do you think where women are the alleged victim there should be exceptions to that?

As to "... we still have the continuing problem of the death of women by their intimate partners every week of the year in Australia." You may be correct in saying that but have you ever noticed that the common denominator in most of these cases is a father separated from his children whether justified or otherwise?

Yes there are women being killed by their partners and this will continue without much doubt and I don't think rough justice helps in anyway to change that situation. Nevertheless one woman can help to balance the domestic violence murder score by murdering eight children. That tops the previous Australian record for domestic violence where a women murdered six children and killed herself in WA some years ago. How's that?...a woman holds the Australian domestic violence record...stick that one under your bonnet Suse.

Roscop, charming as ever.
I am upset at anyone being murdered, male or female.
I see no point in arguing with such an angry man as yourself.

Killarney, the "prickly discomfort" I feel is in trying to hold a sensible conversation with someone who is determined to choose to take offence at everything said to her.

You've become so determined to attack everything said to you, that even when someone makes a positive comment about feminism you manage to find a way to be offended by it.

Seriously mate, I really think you're doing yourself more harm than good in posting here the way you do

Yes Suse...Angry! There are untold number of fathers in Australia who are angry...very very angry. Fortunately for the mothers involved except for a relative few, the vast majority of fathers have contained that anger.

I suggest everyone should read "Kangaroo Court:Family Law in Australia by John Hirst" and it will be understood why if you haven't experienced the application of that law first-hand as a father. It should be a prescribed text for all high school legal studies students.

Following is a link to a book review:

https://www.cis.org.au/images/stories/policy-magazine/2005-winter/2005-21-2-barry-maley.pdf

Excerpts:

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"You need to be a good scholar, a good writer, as well as brave, to launch a long-overdue critique of the Family Court. La Trobe University historian John Hirst fills the bill with this curial J’accuse probing the Court’s injustices."

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"As Hirst notes, an allegation is not investigated by the Court but passed over to the state welfare departments who report either that it has been substantiated or not substantiated—not that it has not occurred. The victim of the ‘unsubstantiated’ allegation has not been declared innocent and continues to wear a stigma that cannot be removed unless a criminal charge is brought and shown to be false. In the meantime, so far as the Family Court is concerned, accused fathers have to prove their innocence. The burden of proof and the costs of doing so have shifted to them."

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Craig

No. What I am describing is a very common pattern in online forums such as this. Women who use any kind of feminist-type argument are routinely belittled and provoked by extremely hostile anti-feminist posters, who often attack in packs of 4 or 5 at a time and keep treating these women's opinions and viewpoints as empty 'dogma' and 'ideology', or alternatively, as irrational man-hating.

Whenever I make a feminist argument, I almost NEVER receive a mature response that addresses my actual argument. Almost always, I am personally belittled and provoked simply because I am a feminist.

And than, of course, after being belittled, provoked, ignored, dismissed and smeared, I am then told by my oh-so-innocent, ever-so-'courteous' attackers that I am angry (!!) and that my anger is not doing my 'cause' any good.

I suggest, Craig, that you go back over your comments to me on this and other threads. Almost never have you treated me as anything other than a misguided fool enslaved to a dogma.

You could also take a look at the general responses to Suse, who has to ride much the same gauntlet on every gender thread.

And remember, you (along with one or two others) were the one who brought up the feminism angle. So take some responsibility for the responses you got.

If you're not prepared to start treating feminist-oriented women as mature, intellectual equals or to use mature, non-provocative language when dealing with them, then don't have the audacity to expect a calm, respectful response.

No, Roscop, my comments re the Family Court are not rubbish.

In the last seven years, I’ve had dealings with two sets of divorcing couples who found themselves among the 6% of cases that end up in the Family Court, and one other couple who came close but managed to settle out of court.

In all three cases, the men acted like complete pigs. They alienated all the legal teams, judges and family counsellors. Despite many witness accounts of their abusive and violent behaviour towards their wives and children and their uncooperative contempt for all the professionals involved with their cases, the final outcome in each case re marital assets and child residency, was split down the middle, as are virtually all Family Court decisions.

Despite the professional teams bending over backwards to help these men, they remained bitter and angry that they had received a ‘bum deal’ by a ‘female-biased’ court system.

I know another man who, after 17 years, is still irrationally bitter that his wife received a $90,000 divorce settlement – which represented exactly half the value of the marital home. To this day, he still rants and raves to anyone foolish enough to listen about how unfair it all was. To some men, ‘half’ the marital assets is way too much to give to an ex-wife and shows ‘unfair bias’ towards women.

Until my dealings with these cases, even I believed a lot of the prevailing hype that the Family Court favours women. Not anymore. In fact, I go on record as saying that if the Family Court stands accused of gender bias, it actually favours MEN. And it does so by excusing their atrocious behaviour and pandering to their self-pity.