I been away for a few days upgrading my computer & cleaning up a yard for a lady whose mother has gone into a home. Nothing but Bougainvillea & rusted Washing Machine Pot Plant & Brown Snakes. Really good fun stuff. Did I miss anything?

I'm just trying to understand exactly what is meant by "Persecution, Oppressed & State of War," according to the Koran & Hadith.

8:39- And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is all for Allah. But if they cease, then lo! Allah is Seer of what they do.[Translation Pickthal]

N.C: 2. Your source omits the part of verse which holds real significance to the point in issue. ‘But if they cease’, tells an average intelligence that the authorisation is to resist the force by force and must be end as soon as the aggression ‘ceases’.

By Persecution does that mean anything that moslems declare as persecution to Islam. E.g.:

Refusal to be allowed to build a Mosque,
Refusal to move a Pig farm after a Mosque is build on the neighbouring land,
Refusing to grant a special day for moslems & screen off an area for moslem women at the Local Swimming Pool,
Refusal to put a screen around the Local Pool because the sight of so many naked bodies is offensive to moslems.
Refusing to pay to have a food declared Halal.
Declaring that the Burka or other such women's clothing inhumane.
Declaring that Sharia Law is forbidden.
Declaring that a moslem can only have one wife.

& many, many more are considered to be persecution of moslems. Therefore they have the right to "defend" themselves or fight the unbelievers by killing innocent unbelieving civilians anywhere in the World. E.g., Lindt Café. The Policeman in Victoria, ect, ect.

So If moslems are refused any of these things then that means that unbeleivers have declared War on Islam & moslems.? Is that correct?

Cont>

>Cont.

N.C: The actual translation
8:12- When thy Lord inspired the angels, (saying): I am with you. So make those who believe stand firm. I will throw fear into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Then smite the necks and smite of them each finger. [Translation Pickthal]

This verse and few previous ones relate to the STATE OF WAR and aim for the hearts of the oppressed to be at rest in face of much bigger aggression they faced for years. This is a perfectly understandable handling of the challenges of war.

So if moslems are refused any of the above then they are being oppressed by unbelievers & "a State of War" has been started by unbelievers on moslems. Is that correct?
So in this verse I believe it is saying that if all of the Refusals mentioned above are stopped & the moslems get their own way, E.g.:

They are allowed to build as many Mosques as they like.
Pigs or Pork Products are Banned in Australia.
Moslems can have special days & special areas screened for moslem women.
Swimming Polls must be screened from the Public so moslems can't see unbelievers swimming.
The Halal Tax must be payed to muslems on every peice of food produced.
All women must wear a Burka os similar clothing.
Sharia Law must be introduced in Australia as the only Legal Law.
Moslems can have as many wives as they can afford even some temporary ones.

When this all happens & the unbelievers will have ceased making War on moslems by giving into all of their demands, then the War will be over. Is this correct?

LUCIFERASE,

Your post of 5 March 4:29 PM

On my earlier statement “There is nothing wrong with the Muslims, like other nations in the post-colonial era, to aim for controlling their own resources.”:

The statement obviously implied Muslim nations and Muslim countries, which is perfectly in line with the Language-of-the-Day.

Pick up newspapers, hear world politicians speak, follow world forums, read books you will hear these words used every day all across the globe.

You think that I have the ISIS mindset because I use these words.

Can you dare call anyone from a forum where you can be seen for who you are, carrying << the mindset of ISIS>> just because they used these words? Can you? Do answer me.

Are out to set language-standards for the world?

Is this task not a little too large for someone operating with a pseudonym in an infinitesimally small part of gigantic world media? Think about it!!

You indicated your problem before by insisting earlier (and will still do, I am sure) on a permanent prefix of ‘secular’ before the world ‘democracy’, where ever it is to be found or used or talked about etc.

But this latest gaffe of yours beats even that.

My problem still remains. How can I talk to you? I need something rational to respond to!

Religion is the cause of all the pain & suffering that is in the world, it always has been and always will be until the human race realises there is no proof that imaginary beings exist, even here we have writers quoting Bible passages and Koran passages, I look forward to the day when writers can show proof and not quote from books of a very dubious writing long ago, both supposedly of love but both cruel in their many passages, until the Governments of the world stop being contradictory as we are seeing now, lighting candles for two drug mules so they will not be shot but sending three hundred extra soldiers to Iraq perhaps to be shot in the same manner, not only them but civilians as well, when will all the candles be lit for the civilians killed, the answer being never, after all the Government created the legitimate scene for heads to be blown off, but cry not for them, only for two drug trafficking mules who knew what they were doing in the first place, what a farce.

Well NC, that's two of my Posts that you have refused to answer or just plain ignored because, the truth hurts. Ay.

Putting it an Islamic scenario;

I have made a demand, in a "Get my own way" Islamic manner & you have refused that demand therefore, you are the aggressor. I am being oppressed by your refusal. In your terms that's that mean that you have declared War on me. I now have the right to defend myself by throwing fear into the hearts of you who oppress & persecute me. I now can smite the necks and smite of you each finger. Is that right?

That's how it works? Isn't it?

WHAT IS GOING ON ?

The raging bull takes the red rag to be the real enemy. Public opinion can also be deflected. Discerning minds should instead be able to see, the bull fighter waving the red rag.
It requires vision nurtured with effort, because those who put themselves at the mercy of vagaries of media can be manipulated to remain focussed on the red rag.

I attempted to explain the reality behind the Middle Eastern Turmoil, but that was seen, by one, as if I was justifying the terrorism or I was favoring the killing the Westerners; how unfortunate, how unfair. That has necessitated this second attempt.
This is an attempt, to understand the method in the madness all around, in order to remain on the side of sanity rather than allowing ourselves to become part to of the madness; please bear with me.

Mutual competition or constant state of struggle is in the nature of life. Survival of the Fittest (Herbert Spencer). Natural Selection or Evolution (Darwin). Conquer or be Conquered (Hamlicar, father of Hannibal)

Nature improves itself through competition; the fitter survive. It is an ongoing phenomenon in the plant kingdom as well as in the animal kingdom.....and of course it applies to humans too. The definition of fitter, in case of humans is a tricky question. We'll come to it later. First, let's try and understand the phenomenon by an example of sports. The actual aim of sports is improvement of human health and fitness. Competitions are a means to that end. Those who keep the real end in mind, work hard and try to better themselves. That is in accordance with the real aim; betterment. Some short sighted fools take the mean ( winning the match) as an end in itself and become willing to do anything to win; doping, bribing, match fixing and physically targeting the opponent player (Stabbing of Monica Seles), all appear fair to them. These are the misguided ones. Their effort does not help the ultimate purpose; to bring out the best, in the players. It does just the opposite.

Continued..