Joe

if what you suggest occurs then the mid east is headed for the cataclysm of an apocalypse. It would not spread to much of the West.

So logically then good will triumph over evil.
And that mate is the prophecy.

The only religion from the region left with any credibility and viability would be the forgiving and peace loving Western Christianity.

That my friend would indeed be a triumph of good over evil. And something we would all welcome.

Nutter,

I hope that it doesn't happen, but if it does, it will hit all of us, one way or another.

For what it's worth, here's my take on the versions of Islam:

(a) Islam is a religion of submission to a god, and a religion of peace: the early sections of the Koran, pre-Medina, when Islam was weak and needed to compromise with the other religions of the Book, with Muslims needing to live alongside others;

(b) Islam is a religion of conquest: post-Medina, once the Kureishi and the Jews and Christians had been driven out of the region: the later sections of the Koran, when Islam suddenly had power over weak neighbours, and in the position to give them the option of conversion or to force the special tax and subordinate status on non-believers;

(c) Islam is a religion of brutality and extermination, in its truly fascist-Utopian version, a post-Koranic version: all non-Muslims to be wiped from the earth, so their choice is to convert or be killed; in the present context, never mind about taxes, the Islamic State doesn't need dhimmis, it has captured banks, towns, oil fields. It is highly geared militarily, with ex-Iraqi army bases, a Syrian air-base, masses of materiel.

But the useful idiots will find excuses for it - somehow, it's all the fault of the US. And they'll go on finding excuses, until it's their turn on the edge of the pit.

Joe

That is interesting Joe.

It is somewhat different to mine.

How does Indonesia sit in your interpretation? Since it is the most populous Muslim country in the world, logically it would exemplify and underline your view.

And out of interest what are your takes on Christianity and Judaism Joe?

Jo
Just to put things onto perspective.
Stalin used the term 'useful idiots' about people in the west who defended or promoted ideologies that undermined the western traditions of democracy and openness.

Now you have to ask yourself who in the current climate is defending ideologies or faiths that undermine the western Christian liberal democracies.

To help you assess that Joe you need acknowledge the Christian beliefs of forgiveness and peacefulness are paramount to and fundamental in western liberal democracies.

Now are they fundamental to the religions that are in conflict in the mid east.

No both religions have conflicting passages between peacefulness/forgiving and violence/vengeance.

So my take logically is anyone who expresses open support for either side in this current crisis would have to be viewed as a 'useful idiot'.

Both sides violence and vengeance undermine the western liberal democracy and openness.

Logic can be a bugger Joe.

Cheers mate.

Hi Nutter,

It was Lenin actually.

As for genuine mercy etc., look in the Koran for any trace of any story like the Good Samaritan story, i.e. about coming to the aid of an 'Other', someone NOT like you, and let me know how you go.

As an atheist, I support the rights of everybody to freely believe whatever they like in peace, as long as they aren't imposing themselves on anybody else - Yazidi, Christians, Shia, Sunni who are NOT involved in beheadings, Turcomans, Turkmens, Nuris, Uncle Tom Cobbley and all.

Maybe your point about equivalence (have I got that right?) would be a bit stronger if Yazidis burst out off Mount Sinjar and started butchering Sunnis, peace-loving Islamic state people. Or Assyrian or Chaldean Christians, whose ancestors have been across the Middle East long before Muhammed stopped sh!tting his nappies.

Just give me the URL of a photo of a Yazidi's kid holding up a severed Sunni head and I'll give your notion of equivalence the time of day.

Otherwise, my useful idiot friend, don't bother me.

Joe

Yes Jo, well said.

Nutter & cos alibi that they are against all violence looks pretty threadbare when you tally up the number of lines they have written condemning Israel and "Zionism" vis-à-vis the number of lines they have written condemning violence by Arabs and Islam --especially when you consider the latter are by far the biggest offenders.