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Please don’t insult my intelligence any further by insisting that Qassam rockets play a defensive role. I previously asked you how many examples can you show where these rockets were used for defence. So far you’ve provided none, other than insisting that this is the case.
From Wikipedia:

“These [Qassam] rockets cannot be fired to target specific military objectives in or near civilian areas, and are mainly meant to “harming civilians”, as Human Rights Watch stated”

By their very nature these rockets cannot be used for defence. They can only be used for terror purposes. This, sir, is a real fact.

The video clip you thoughtfully provided shows the lively property market in Gaza, somewhat demolishing your previous allegation that Gaza is under siege. Localities under siege do not usually have a bubbling property market with luxury developments valued at millions of dollars. The clip does nothing to detract from the fact that a large proportion of the construction material entering Gaza was diverted to the terror tunnels. The video also confirms that Hamas benefit greatly from the existence of the tunnels as I mentioned at the beginning of this post.

Yes, Hamas should have known that Israel would be back to retaliate for the thousands of rockets is lobbed across the border at Israeli towns. They would have continued to launch rockets for years if necessary to ensure that Israel retaliates. Since retaliation for their terror activities was a certainty, don’t you think protecting their civilians should have been a priority, rather than wasting more and more resources on terror tunnels?

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“Military training to kill Palestinians is compulsory in Israel…”

Really? The Israeli military trains its recruits specifically to kill Palestinians? Can you provide any evidence to back this absurd allegation?
Of course there is no such evidence. We are, however, aware of the Hamas combat manual (http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2014/08/04/Hamas-Combat-Manual-Endorses-Use-of-Civilian-Human-Shields) encouraging the use of civilians as human shields to maximise civilian casualties. So who is trained to harm Palestinian civilians here? The Hamas manual, by the way, refutes your allegation that the IDF deliberately targets Palestinian civilians.

Furthermore, you say

“In an Israeli night club the vast proportion of those in attendance would be of military age and trained therefore a bomb placed in this environment would have a good chance of targeting mainly service personnel”

You are justifying terrorism against civilians by suggesting there’s a good chance that some service personnel might also be struck. In that case, bombing shopping centres is also justified for the same reason. Surely you can also rationalise the Qassam rockets fired at Israeli cities, as again, some service personnel might possibly be hit. The 9/11 attack was therefore also justified, there must have been some US servicemen that fought against Muslims in those building. Where do we stop? Blowing up an Israeli kindergarten is next, as we can assume that some of those kids might grow up to be servicemen and women before too long. Congratulations, you are now qualified for a full Hamas membership, having fully adopted their mentality and terror principles.

Dear Avw,

As I think I have only one post left I am going to address this point you have made and get to the rest later. You wrote;

“You are justifying terrorism against civilians by suggesting there’s a good chance that some service personnel might also be struck. In that case, bombing shopping centres is also justified for the same reason. Surely you can also rationalise the Qassam rockets fired at Israeli cities, as again, some service personnel might possibly be hit. The 9/11 attack was therefore also justified, there must have been some US servicemen that fought against Muslims in those building. Where do we stop? Blowing up an Israeli kindergarten is next, as we can assume that some of those kids might grow up to be servicemen and women before too long. Congratulations, you are now qualified for a full Hamas membership, having fully adopted their mentality and terror principles.”

I totally abhor both actions and think it is pure terrorism targeting people in their homes or cafes or playing on a beach or sheltering in a school. In total you have probably written nearly 1500 words after I put my question to you and not once did you address the Israeli side of the equation. You only see one side's behavior as expressing that 'mentality and terror principles'. You sir are therefore justifying terrorism particularly against civilians, the kind that has seen over 1500 of them dead and thousands more maimed and injured.

I directly asked you what would be the least legitimate because I don't think either act has legitimacy in a civilised world. You refused to answer. Our prime minister said, when cuddling up to the Sri Lankan leader whose government has like Israel accused of war crimes, that 'difficult things happen in difficult circumstances'.

If Israel wants to claim 'difficult circumstances' then how much more difficult is it for the Gazans?

I think the reason you have not answered the question is that you can't and to a degree I sympathise. But they are still burying their children in Gaza.

Steelredux's premise that Palestinians are freedom fighters valiantly battling oppressors would be a valid point, provided that the Palestinians were part of a group of very nice hobbits who only want to be left alone to live in multicultural peace with their neighbours.

Reality is somewhat different.

Most people can see poetic justice in the world's most foremost ethnic cleansers being ethnically cleansed by one of their primary victims. Steelredux's premise would also make a lot of sense if he could show that the Palestinians are very happy to compromise with the Israelis and give them some territory of their own to call home. But since the Palestinian Arabs are demanding the total extermination of Israel then they can hardly complain when the people they wish to exterminate shoot back.

The problem boils down to one piece of territory coveted by two cultural/religious groups. The Jewish side has tried to find peace through compromise, but the Muslim side totally refuses to compromise and nothing less than the total extermination of the Jews or their complete subjection within an Islamic state will satisfy the Muslims.

With only two choices available, be exterminated or fight, the Jews must protect themselves and do a bit of ethnic cleansing themselves. But the Jews are a lot more humane about it than the Muslims have ever historically been. They don't behead, rape and or indulge in mass executions. They keep building settlements on Arab land and make the Muslims feel unwelcome in their country. They also shoot back at the Muslims when they try to kill Jews

Dear SR:

“I totally abhor both actions and think it is pure terrorism targeting people in their homes or cafes or playing on a beach or sheltering in a school”

There doesn’t seem to be a great deal of abhorrence on your part given that you go out of your way to justify terrorism against civilians on the premise that there’s “a good chance of targeting mainly service personnel”, yet completely ignore repeated efforts by the IDF to avoid civilian casualties by issuing warnings prior to strikes. Are you really unable to see the obvious difference?

“…not once did you address the Israeli side of the equation”

You’re right, I’ve addressed the Israeli side of the equation not once, but many times. See the previous paragraph as an example. The fact that you choose to ignore it doesn’t mean I’m not addressing it. As I mentioned in an earlier post, you might think that the IDF could make a greater effort to avoid civilian casualties, but there is a world of difference between accidental civilian deaths and deliberately targeting civilians. My previous question to you, can you name another army that takes such precautions prior to strikes, went unanswered.

As for my answer to your question, I have already made it very clear what I think. At the risk of repeating myself I’ll spell it out again: targeting civilians as Hamas have been doing repeatedly for decades is pure terrorism, and the most repulsive action any group can take. There can be no excuse for it, certainly not because you think some service personnel might possibly be hit. The IDF engagements are targeting militants and terror infrastructure and are designed to avoid civilian casualties. There is no doubt which is the least legitimate action.

LEGO and SPQR

Thanks for your kind words. I have been reading your posts with great interest as well.
LEGO, I don’t think you can define the Israeli actions as ethnic cleansing, given that the number of Palestinians in the West Bank has increased 5 fold and in Gaza 20 fold since the establishment of Israel.

Christ no Lego the Israelis never indulge in anything illegal. Just ask Singer and V dub. They'll tell you that.
They are both Israeli propagandists pretending to adopt our western ways. Both are wolves in sheep's clothing aiming to change us to be the same as them. So that we support their outrageous behaviours.

Hey V dub your last couple of post softened your disparaging of our philosophical and literary tradition, and now you are ignoring me. Gee mate that is what all the other propagandists do when they find they cannot refute my position.

You obviously have had your instructions and your masters have told you not to argue my philosophical points and to ignore me. They know they can't win this particular debate.

You are just so easy V dub. Your belief in the ancient book is flawed and incompatible with western traditions. Oh you can wear our clothes but your heart wears a dark veil.