Killarney,

"All this human shields business is a propaganda furphy"

It's only furphy if you choose to close your eyes to the mounting evidence. There have been countless of interviews and speeches by Hamas members where they specifically call on their civilians to act as human shields. And let's not forget about using a school to shield a stash of rockets. Do I really need to post the links to all this? It's all out there, all you need to do is Google.

"Fighting back against a ruthless oppressor/occupier is human nature"

Did you forget that Israel left Gaza nearly a decade ago? It has not been occupying Gaza since 2005. Do I need to post evidence of that here too?

As you correctly point out, the Gazan population democratically elected Hamas. Germany also elected Hitler in a democratic process in 1933. Hamas proceeded to violently eliminate the opposition following the election. So did the German National Socialists. Gaza might have elected Hamas, but they have no way of replacing them now. There is no way of knowing whether Hamas still have the support of the population. The democratic experiment in Gaza has reached a sad ending. And by the way, Hamas do not provide a "massive...financial support to the people of Gaza". That support comes mainly from those "Washington consensus" countries that you deplore so much. That includes you and me.

Regarding "Israel's supporters" who are allegedly bombing Muslim countries "into submission". There really is no need to bomb these countries into submission, they do an excellent job themselves. Sunnis fighting Shias in Iraq, civil war in Syria, massacres in Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, Sudan, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen and countless other Muslim countries I'm sure I forgot to mention. Undoubtedly you lay the blame for all the ills of the Muslim world squarely on the shoulders of Israel and its supporters.

As for the "genocide it [Israel] is inflicting on the Palestinians", are you aware that the Palestinian population in Gaza increased around 20 times since 1949? Maybe you should look up the meaning of 'genocide' again.

Dear David,

There might well be a few die-hards and the wilfully ignorant that will swallow what you are selling but they are getting fewer in number.

You contended that there had been 1381 rockets fired from Gaza since the 8th of July and that as a consequence Israel had to respond. The problem is that they had been already responding to an apparent abduction of the three Israeli teenagers in occupied Palestine. The authorities knew however they were dealing with a brutal slaying but the government withheld that information because it suited their desire to act against Hamas for its temerity of making peace with Fatah. So the IDF took literally hundreds of prisoners, destroyed of damaged hundreds of homes, businesses and charities, shot dozens of Palestinians, and conducted bombing raid after bombing raid in Gaza and this was just in June.

As you put it 'No country anywhere would tolerate so much bombing, shelling, kidnapping, wounding and killing of its citizens and not act in self defence to put an end to such criminal and inhumane conduct.'

And while these 1381 inaccurate rockets were being fired the IDF hit over 2,500 targets inside Gaza with munitions far more lethal than anything the Gazans could retaliate with.

Yet again the government of Israel used the tragic deaths of its citizens to engage in wholesale slaughter, to give licence to predetermined agendas, to force divisions within the Palestinian people, to consciously step away from peace and to expand its occupation. It is cynical, brutal and evil.

Murderers is indeed a just word for those who would kill civilians including women and children. Who says the target of the resistance fighters who came ashore was anything other than military in nature? What is known for sure is the toll of civilian lives directly attributable to the IDF and murderers is certainly an apt description.

There are no saints in either side of this conflict but one is continuing a brutal occupation it seemingly has no intention of ending. It is here that the first steps must be made.

Avw

I’m not going create a very long post by responding to every point you made, as most of them have been well and truly debunked by many others. However, a few selective points…

‘Did you forget that Israel left Gaza nearly a decade ago? It has not been occupying Gaza since 2005.’

Left what?? Gaza is a totally fenced/guarded/checkpointed/watchtowered/walled ghetto. It has virtually no existence other than that of an open-air prison. Get real.

‘Germany also elected Hitler in a democratic process in 1933.’

No, it didn’t. Do some reading.

‘There really is no need to bomb these countries into submission, they do an excellent job themselves.’

Scratch the surface of any of those conflicts and you will find that ‘job’ to be USNATO standard-issue imperial war by proxy. Pick a country, find the cultural fault lines, then destabilise it, then arm militias, then watch the country tear itself apart with a civil war or coup. This has been going on since Roman times. Even a country like Australia, if subjected to the same process, would descend into civil war or revolution within a set time frame.

Well, I am on the side of Israel, because I really do not like Arabs or Muslims.

I think that Arabs and Muslims are responsible for most of the trouble in the world right now, and anyone who shoots back at them is alright by me. Given that the Arabs and Muslims seem to hate anybody who is not an Arab or a Muslim, (and even hate other Arabs and Muslims), how anyone can defend them is beyond me.

If the Palestinians don't want the Israelis dropping 155mm artillery shells on their cities, all they have to do is to refrain from shooting Grad rockets over the border into Israel. If they won't do that, then as far as I am concerned, the Israelis should make Gaza completely uninhabitable.

Spare me the crap about the women and children. The rule of thumb in war is, that if you target your enemies woman and children, your own might become fair game. My uncle Charlie was in Bomber Command in WW2, flying Lancasters over Germany. How many German women and kids he killed, God only knows.

Message to the Arab Muslims. Leave the Israelis alone. They have just as much right to ethnically cleanse Arabs and Muslims from their land, as you had to ethnically cleanse Jews and Christians from yours.

Killarney,

Most of my points have been debunked? Really? Which ones? You proved a complete lack of knowledge with the few points you did try to address.

Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2005. That is a fact. The increased security measures came gradually after the pull-out in response to the violence (and by the way there is no "wall" around Gaza as you claim). In other words it was the Hamas violence that caused the increased restrictions by the Israelis, not the other way around, no matter how hard you try to make it appear that way. Note also that it is not only Israel that restricts movements across the border from Gaza. You should ask yourself why is Egypt also doing the same and reach some conclusions.

Are you saying that Hitler did not win the majority vote in democratic elections in Germany in 1933? And I’m the one who should be doing some reading?

What imperial war are you suggesting is fought in Iraq, where Sunni extremists (enemies of the "Washington consensus") are fighting Iranian proxies (also enemies of the "Washington consensus")? The only empire I can think that might be fuelling the flames there is Iran who has a direct interest in seeing one side prevailing. Or in Syria, where we have a similar scenario?

Avw

There is no point arguing with the 'Hamas started it' brigade, who are only slightly more tedious than LEGO's 'Muslims are the biggest threat to world peace' brigade.

Don't worry, Av. The Gaza slaughter will continue, because the Netan-Yahoo junta have big and powerful friends and lots of bombs to drop on defenceless people under siege, while pretending they are only dropping all these bombs on defenceless people under siege in order to defend themselves, even though they are neither defenceless nor under siege.

And we can always rely on the US Congress/Senate to pass some idiot resolution to favour Israel, and world leaders to rabbit on about some bicycle of violence, and for Obama (or whatever idiot president of the day is pretending to broker a peace deal in the ME) and that idiot BankyMoon clown will smile and nod on cue.

If it looks as if I'm resorting to ridicule because I don't feel like making rational arguments, it's because I AM. There is just so much disproportionate Israel humbug one can take, before deciding whether to laugh or cry over what is being done to Gaza with the full approval of the world's governments, but not the world's people.

And Hitler was NOT democratically elected. Whether you wish to do any reading about that is a matter of supreme indifference to me.