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The Forum > Article Comments > Conservatism and climate science > Comments

Conservatism and climate science : Comments

By Don Aitkin, published 24/6/2014

Given that they have had virtually a monopoly of the mass media, the government and the scientific academies, doesn't that point to a fundamental problem with the 'climate change' message?

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Hi Ant,

Here's some *food* for thought. This is a -slightly annotated- article from "Time" June 23, 2014 –PLEASE CONSIDER THE PARALLELS:

“In 1977, the year before I was born, a Senate committee led by George McGovern published its landmark ‘Dietary Goals for the United States,’ urging Americans to eat less high-fat red meat, eggs and dairy and replace them with more calories from fruits, vegetables and especially carbohydrates...
[picture George McGovern as a earlier Al Gore and fat as CO2]

By 1980 that wisdom was codified. The U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) issued its first dietary guidelines and one of the primary directives was to avoid cholesterol and fat of all sorts. The National Institutes of Health recommended that all Americans over the age of 2 cut fat consumption, and the same year the government announced the results of a $150 million study, which had a clear message: Eat less far and cholesterol to reduce your risk of heart attack…
[yep! The science is settled --nows the time for direct action --picture this as Obama's new environmental laws ..the Oz carbon taxes ...and those almost weekly climate spruiting reports]

Nearly four decades later, the results are in: the experiment was a failure. Americans cut the fat, but by almost every measure, they are sicker than ever…‘Americans were told to cut fat to lose weight and prevent heart disease,’ says Dr David Ludwig …there’s an overwhelmingly strong case to be made for the opposite’ But …despite the evidence to support it . The vilification of fat is now deeply embedded in American culture…
[picture the 17 year hiatus & similar anomalies -- and anyone who raises questions about it being shouted down]

The US’s demonisation of fat may have backfired in ways it is just beginning to understand..."
["HOUSTON we have a problem! apropos those charts you gave us -when did the Moon acquire a huge multicolour ring? & satellites of its own...Houston,Houston are you there? --or with reference to the IPCC & climate change -how did we come to loose all our infustries and revert to third world status?]
Posted by SPQR, Saturday, 5 July 2014 10:52:48 AM
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SPQR, I'm not sure that the parallels you are trying to draw are there.
.People's lifestyles have changed.
.In 1977 electronic devices were not available and people tended to be more active.
.There wasn't the proliferation of fast food outlets as there are now ( in Australia, anyway)
.People were not drinking cordials loaded with sugar to the extent they do now.
.People tend to be more sedentary through using their electronic devices.

The same trend is happening in Australia. Cutting down on cholesterol levels has been pushed here. The diet industry hardly existed from memory in 1977 here, there wasn't the emphasis on looks as there is now. Using dieting programs is a sure way to end up putting on more weight in the long run for many people.
Doctors still have the view that cholesterol is bad, they have been able to distinguish fats that are harmful and those that have not impacts on the body. Last year on Catalyst there was a program (Heart of the Matter) about not using statins to reduce cholesterol levels. The presenter was attacked by the medical profession after the showing. The medical profession did not have anything to gain other than the health of their patients.
Posted by ant, Saturday, 5 July 2014 1:32:31 PM
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NT/WAS DOING..SO GOOD..<<..The same trend is happening in Australia. Cutting down on cholesterol levels has been pushed here.>>

<<..The diet industry hardly existed[from memory]in 1977 here,
there wasn't the emphasis on looks as there is now.>>

lol

too funny
in so many ways

who is twiggy?
why did karen carpenter starve to death
[cause her mongrel bother told her she is too fat

anyhow..THE DOWN-SIDE/OF LIGHT BULBS
http://investmentwatchblog.com/obama-creates-a-new-bank-as-he-rolls-out-his-agenda-21-transportation-plan-via-executive-orders/

[PLEASE/GOOGLE..THE LIGHT-BULB CONSPIRICY]
moRE/BLOW-BACK..
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/jul/03/oklahoma-earthquakes-fracking-waste-water-wells
http://www.rdmag.com/news/2014/06/fracking-flowback-could-pollute-groundwater-heavy-metals
http://www.zengardner.com/staged-disaster-looms/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-28128772
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-28130982
this
http://investmentwatchblog.com/obama-creates-a-new-bank-as-he-rolls-out-his-agenda-21-transportation-plan-via-executive-orders/
LEADS2THAT.

http://12160.info/profiles/blogs/corrupt-corporate-ran-big-media-in-america?xg_source=activity

http://www.thelonestarwatchdog.com/2014/07/04/declaration-people-2014/

http://rinf.com/alt-news/uk-news/makes-us-stronger-strike-together-say-activists-run-10-july-walkout/

http://www.theorganicprepper.ca/withdraw-your-consent-25-ways-to-declare-your-independence-07042014

http://investmentwatchblog.com/how-wall-street-manipulates-the-buy-to-rent-housing-racket/
Posted by one under god, Saturday, 5 July 2014 2:05:13 PM
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“Leo you keep demanding definitive proof that human activities are affecting the climate.

This is on a par with demanding proof that chemistry or mathematics is correct”.
When you said this, warmair, I took you to be lacking education. As you say, you received appropriate schooling, so you know better than to make such a baseless statement. You are well aware that the assertions made about AGW are not axiomatic, and require scientific proof, particularly as the assertions are shown by current observation to be wrong.
Since you know that your statement is baseless, you did not make it through ignorance, so your statement was dishonest. It is a fraud-backing statement.
Here is an extract from a link that you will find helpful, posted by OUG. It is Apollo astronaut Walter Cunningham talking about AGW:
"To me, it's almost laughable, it's the biggest fraud in the field of science,certainly in my lifetime, maybe the biggest one in centuries."
"If you go back and you look at the data that has been well-documented over the years, you can look and see, for example, that right now both carbon dioxide and temperature are simultaneously at one of the lowest levels in at least the last 600-800 million years. The last time they were both together at this low a level, more or less, was 300 million years ago, and if you go back go back about 500-600 million years ago, carbon dioxide was 15 times higher than what it is now. So, what I'm getting at is this, the history shows you that most of this is just plain nonsensical today."

http://cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/craig-bannister/apollo-astronaut-climate-alarmism-biggest-fraud-field-science
As you are no doubt aware, warmair, astronauts are highly trained scientists.
Posted by Leo Lane, Saturday, 5 July 2014 10:03:13 PM
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Lol!

"....It is Apollo astronaut Walter Cunningham talking about AGW:"

"As you are no doubt aware, warmair, astronauts are highly trained scientists."

Oh, here's a good article on the subject:

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2012/apr/12/attacks-climate-science-nasa-staff

We have seen many examples of climate denialists producing long lists of fake experts, for example the Oregon Petition and the Wall Street Journal 16. Now we have yet another of these lists of fake experts. 49 former National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) employees (led by Harrison Schmitt, who was also one of the Wall Street Journal 16) have registered their objection to mainstream climate science through the most popular medium of expressing climate contrarianism - a letter. As is usually the case in these climate contrarian letters, this one has no scientific content, and is written by individuals with not an ounce of climate science expertise, but who nevertheless have the audacity to tell climate scientists what they should think about climate science."

"Obviously this letter first gained attention because the signatories are former NASA employees. They are being touted as "top astronauts, scientists, and engineers" and "NASA experts, with more than 1000 years of combined professional experience." Okay, but in what fields does their expertise lie?

Based on the job titles listed in the letter signatures, by my count they include 23 administrators, 8 astronauts, 7 engineers, 5 technicians, and 4 scientists/mathematicians of one sort or another (none of those sorts having the slightest relation to climate science). Amongst the signatories and their 1,000 years of combined professional experience, that appears to include a grand total of zero hours of climate research experience, and zero peer-reviewed climate science papers...."

(The old fake expert trick...always worth a visit to an OLO climate thread for some jollies:)
Posted by Poirot, Sunday, 6 July 2014 12:45:25 AM
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Leo, Astronauts are not specialists in climate science; but you are saying that scientists who believe what you say have credibility but any scientist involved with climate science do not, no logic there.

Carbon dioxide is continually measured at a number of stations; in pre-Industrial Revolution times there was something like 270+- ppm of CO2 in the atmosphere, now it has crept up to just a a tad over 400ppm +-. Very easily checked.

http://www.csiro.au/greenhouse-gases/GreenhouseGas/data/CapeGrim_CO2_data_download.txt

In May 2014 the amount of CO2 measured was 401.85 ppm at Hawaii. The CSIRO reference shows how the level of CO2 in the atmosphere has been steadily rising.

Methane another greenhouse gas has moved from about 790 ppb to 1990 ppb in a short time frame. Methane is released from tundra areas and fairly shallow waters that are ice covered. Cold temperatures keep it stable but the amount being voided is increasing.

A couple of years ago a friend with a Maths Science background went to a Plimer presentation. My mate stated that Plimer was talking about water vapour as not being a greenhouse agent. The atmosphere being warmer allows for more water vapour to be carried in clouds; but when it is released, it releases big time (Britain, US, Bosnia/Serbia, Austria, Brazil, and China all in 2014). So we have a geologist who spoke about an area out of his expertise (atmospherics) who got it wrong.

oug
Anorexia nervosa and bulimia nervosa are eating disorders and are listed in DSM 5 and ICD-10 as psychological/psychiatric conditions.

So it is sad the talented Karen Carpenter died from an eating disorder, that has no bearing on the subject discussed. Yes, I remember twiggy as well, she was extremely slim. There would have been millions of slim people about in 1977 and numbers of obese as well when the US review was completed in 1977.
In Australia there were few magazines in 1977 pushing diets, Woman's Day, New Idea and Woman's Weekly not many more. There has been a proliferation of magazines and media reports since about diet and body image.
Posted by ant, Sunday, 6 July 2014 7:28:35 AM
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