JP,

What arrogant nonsense!

"I was asking how any “rights” can be justified? In an atheistic universe any “rights” can be claimed but how can they be substantiated?"

The answer is simple, the mores and ethics about humanity and society existed far before Christianity and exists in atheists and people of all religions, and anyone with a brain and a sense of justice can work out the logical steps to safeguard people against the predations of those in authority.

While many christians have been involved in furthering the rights of humanity, they back pedal when the logic they have been pushing comes into conflict with religious dogma.

To answer an earlier questioned raised with the survival of fertilized eggs, a friend of mine who is an IVF specialist gave me a run down on the process including the following:

Only roughly 25% of fertilized human eggs go on to produce a foetus, with those in their teens closer to 40% and those in their late 30s closer to 10% Much of this has to do with the process of melding of the chromosomes and the damage to the genetics of the original gametes. The older the mother(mostly responsible) and father, the more damaged the gametes and the less perfect the process, and the less chance the zygote has of being viable.

The reason that IVF is relatively so successful is because a large number of eggs are harvested and fertilized, and only the small number that are viable are kept and implanted, giving the woman the same chance of success equivalent to about 2 years of normal intercourse.

Shadow Minister – you seem to be saying that atheists and others can work out what is morally right and wrong by rational means.

However there is no necessary correspondence between what is rational and what is normally considered to be moral. For example, a young man may make a decision to kill his grandmother so as to hasten receiving his inheritance. This may be quite a rational decision to make – he is poor while she is wealthy but sick and using a lot of her money on her health care; he has a plan that will ensure he almost certainly won’t be held responsible for her death; he doesn’t like her. But despite such a decision being rational very few people would say that his decision is morally right.

When rationality and morality are in conflict, which should prevail and why?

Also, how should things be resolved when atheists disagree with each other about what is morally right? For example there are atheists who are opposed to abortion (see http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2014/03/11/yes-there-are-pro-life-atheists-out-there-heres-why-im-one-of-them/ ) Which atheists are right – those in favour of abortion or those against it?

JP given the number of thiestic beliefs in the world and the even greater number of interpretations of their holy writings/teachings thiests face exactly the same problem. If there was only one concept of god and no confusion about just how she wants people to live then your point might bear some relevance. Thats not the way it is.

R0bert

JP,

It is obvious that all but the crudest form of animalistic rationality eludes you. Only the most insane would think that murder is the way to a better life. Rationality requires the consideration of more than simple gains, but consequences, and the vision of a better society.

I as an atheist have worked at soup kitchens not because someone or something else told me it was the right thing to do, but because I believe it is a good thing to do.

Christians don't have the monopoly on good works, and have more than their fair share of slaughter.

'I as an atheist have worked at soup kitchens'

SM seems to think this somehow justifies baby killing. Pathetic.

JP,

You act as though all of the rules in life and morality have been given to you in black and white, and you never need to make any decisions yourself regarding right and wrong.

Is this the case? If so where do you get your rules on absolute morality?

If not, then you must use the same processes as the rest of us to navigate your decisions.

Its not that bloody complicated.