This tiresome debate has been going on for decades.

The only thing that changes is it's name but the arguments have stayed the same.

Many of the most devout "right-to-lifers" see no problem with dropping bombs on pregnant women during war time and call for the reintroduction of the death penalty.

What they really want is the right to choose who lives and who dies and hide behind a contrived belief system to justify their prejudices and bigotry - yet have absolutely no personal stake in any resulting misery their demands may cause.

Time to put up or shut up. Tell the mother of a deformed fetus or one in abject poverty that you will personally pay for all resulting expenses for the rest of the life of the unborn child or adopt and raise it yourself.

No?

I thought not.

Don't condemn people you don't even know to a lifetime of misery just because it offends the beliefs into which you were indoctrinated.
It's none of your business and the choice is not yours to make.

That sort of morality once had women burned as witches and others enslaved.

Dear david f (and Yuyutsu),

>>one fruit of religion is slaughter. Abandoning religion would remove one cause of war and conflict<<

One fruit of sexuality is rape. Abandoning sex would remove one cause of violence.

Abandoning sex probably means mass castration. What does abandoning religion mean? In my dictionary religion is “the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods”. Well, I lived in a world where religion thus understood was "abandoned". Something else, not much better filled in the vacuum. So a call for abandoning religion should be followed by explaining what should replace religion’s traditional psychological and social functions, and arguments why we should think that in the long run - and classical religions had all had very long runs - this replacement would be better.

Both religion and sex have other fruits as well, so one should be careful about what one wishes.

Dear George,

There were five great extinctions of species according to the fossil record. The sixth great extinction is going on at present. It apparently is due to the changes humans have been making on the planet. The disappearance of human sexuality would eliminate human beings. The planet would recover to a degree from the human caused changes, and the sixth great extinction would come to an end. Biodiversity would benefit by the end of human sexuality. Of course one could say that humanity has done great things, but are the great things more important than the extinction of species?

Religion has provided benefits for humans and has also been a source of opposition to the human quest for knowledge. The 16th century was a time of unprecedented change, the very beginning of the modern era of science, a time of great exploration, religious and political turmoil, and extraordinary literature. What was the reaction of the Abrahamic religions? In 1553 Protestant Geneva burned Servetus at the state for heresy in doubting the Trinity. Servetus was a great mind.

http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=10725 points to my essay about the incident. In 1600 Catholic Rome burned Giordano Bruno at the stake. Bruno speculated that the sun was a star, and there could be many stars with life on the planets going around them. Condemning those who speculate about the heavens is not new with Catholicism. Anaxagoras was condemned in pagan Athens for impiety in thinking the sun was a lump of metal. Jews, having no power to burn anyone at the stake, could only excommunicate the great Spinoza in 1656. Religion has also fostered knowledge, but its record in fostering ignorance is unsurpassed by any other human institution. The heirs to the kind of thinking that resulted in burning Servetus and Bruno now support Creationism.

continued

JP,

Don’t you see your problem – you want to say the young man who wanted to murder his grandmother for the inheritance is not insane for thinking that way, he just has different moral values to you and if you are both Christians, who are you to say that his values are wrong and yours are right?

Considering that there are just as many or "Christians" killing others, your position that Christians have the moral high ground is without foundation.

Continued

However, there is an intimate connection between the Abrahamic religions and sexuality. There is apparently a great fear of female sexuality and female independence. On this list it shows itself in those who are outraged that a pregnant woman should be able to decide she wants to terminate a pregnancy. Apparently the fate of a female foetus is a matter of great concern, but the pregnant woman should go to term regardless of how she feels about it or how it would affect her life. The female foetus is important but not the woman whose body carries it.

http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=9981&page=0 contains my essay on the biblical myth about Eve coming from Adam’s rib. The legend even denies the fact that we are all born of woman. Adam must give birth to Eve. What a putdown of woman!

runner with his contempt for women and truth states phony statistics claiming over 99+% abortions are for the convenience of the woman. How dare those hussies have any right to decide about their own bodies?

Eliminating human sexuality would benefit the planet and eliminate religion. In spite of those benefits, religion and human sexuality will continue in the foreseeable future. Last week I attended a funeral and saw a three day old baby. The man’s life was worthwhile. The mother speculated on her baby’s future and took great joy in his existence. Hatching, matching and dispatching are the three big events in life. May they continue. Both the hatching and dispatching I mentioned were not connected with any religious observance.

A woman who is pregnant through rape should have the right to decide whether or not she wants an abortion. That is the right any pregnant woman should have regardless of the circumstances of her pregnancy.

david/quote..<<..sixth great extinction..is going on at present...The disappearance of human sexuality..would eliminate human beings.>>

yes/divide\us..and we..vanquish..each other.

<<The planet would recover to a degree..from the human caused changes,..>>

if/you refer to global/warming/cooling/climate change
or[whats the latest catch phrase]..sever/weather events..thats junk[sure we are poluting extincting/etc but not changing climate..to the point a nice bug green tax sooths consience.

<<..one could say that humanity has done great things,..but are the great things..more important..than the extinction of species?>>

extinction/simply wont happen[the earth is going to shift phases[its going to properly join..with hell/demons..or angels..and it will lie side by side.]

<<..Religion..the human quest for knowledge..What was the reaction of the Abrahamic religions?..>>

they did quite well in the cracks[god sent men many messengers
many/mene..men eh?

<<In 1553 Protestant Geneva burned Servetus at the stake..for heresy in doubting the Trinity...Servetus was a great mind.>>

god has sent mankind..many mess-angers and teachers
but teaching is about learning/learning is about just deserts[earning]

<<..Bruno speculated..that the sun..was a star,..and there could be many stars..with life on the planets going around them...>>

swedenberg says only 9 have humans[and we are the only nations that can read or write/like the angels and demons

<<.Jews, having no power to burn..anyone at the stake,..could only excommunicate the great Spinoza in 1656...>>

in heaven/hell..you get bannished..
or are simply not made aware/[in the loop]

<<Religion..fostering ignorance is unsurpassed..
by any other human institution.>>

its/not ignorance/its faith..
[blind trust]..obedience to heart/not\mind.

<<..intimate connection between..the Abrahamic religions and sexuality.>>[yes]..ahhhh-men?

<<..a great fear of female sexuality and female independence.>>
funny about that/but..woman dont need sperm anymore/heck skin cells is enough]/..you could be charged with rape/never even met.

2bctd