Dear david f,

>>The thesis seems neither coarse nor lacking in precision. Whether it is false or not is a matter of opinion.<<

I gave the quote (out of context) only to illustrate that there are Catholics who seem to disagree with Halík on this. To judge Benedict’s thesis you would need to read the sequel where he gives his reasons, c.f. http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2006/september/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20060912_university-regensburg_en.html. Of course, it is still a matter of opinion whether or not one agrees with them.

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Dear George & Sells,

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Belief is an idea. It is the idea that something is true. An irrational belief is called faith. Faith in the existence of a supreme (ideal) being is called religion.

“A systematic scheme of ideas forming the basis of action or policy - a set of beliefs governing conduct. Also: the forming or holding of such a scheme of ideas” is called an ideology (Oxford English Dictionary definition n° 4).

It therefore seems logical to me that religion is an ideology.

I should be interested to read your arguments to the contrary.

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Dear Banjo,

<<It therefore seems logical to me that religion is an ideology.>>

The story of the blind men touching an elephant is well known: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_men_and_an_elephant

Ideology is a limb of religion, or one way by which religion operates - a means rather than an end.

So is faith (which truly isn't a belief, but an attitude).

Neither is strictly required for being religious, but just as an elephant would function poorly without its trunk or tail, a leg or an ear, so is religion harder to follow without ideology or faith.

Most elephants have a trunk.
Most religions have an ideology.

One should not confuse between the two.

<<Indeed, religion is one of mankind’s oldest, firmlly entrenched ideologies, finding its roots in the fear, awe and wonder inspired by natural phenomenon for which we had no rational explanation.>>

Sadly, that's how religion is perceived from the outside, by a blind human.

<<Not only is religion an ideology, it is a political ideology>>

When religious ideology turns into a political ideology, then it is no longer religious, then it is no longer a limb of religion - but a cancerous growth!

Dear Banjo,

>>Belief is an idea. It is the idea that something is true. An irrational belief is called faith. Faith in the existence of a supreme (ideal) being is called religion.<<

You can have your definitions as you please, but you can then compare your opinions only with those who share your definitions. For instance, people believe in God, or believe that God exists (not the same), I do not know what it means to have faith in the existence of something. Or who decides what is a rational and what an irrational belief, etc?

>>It therefore seems logical to me that religion is an ideology.<<

Which means that many, if not most, of those 34 million Google responses I referred to are illogical.

>>I should be interested to read your arguments to the contrary.<<

There are many, although probably not easily explained in a few words, since religions can degenerate into ideologies. Just read a few of those that Google pops up when you ask for “ideology, religion” (or Yuyutsu’s reply).

>>arguments../to\..*the contrary.<<=uncertainty>sureness>SURETY>SECURITY>PUREITy.

GEORGE? <<religions..can degenerate..into ideologies...[for]...those who share your definitions...For instance,..people believe..*in God,>>.[or]..those people/who..<<..>>believe that God exists>>

great point

(its/..<<..not/the same..,I do*/not..know*]

its the certainty/believability
..LIMITATION/EVEN..OF what it is..we are..*knowing


<<>..what it means to have faith..in the existence>

[VAUE/WORTH/TRUTH/VERACITY]...<<of some*thing.<<>>

WE HAVE FAITH/SHAKING-pen/of..shakAre-SPEAR\WRote,/MAC/BREATH
we have faith...dino*saw/WE HAVE FAITH..DODO'S..USED TO EXIST..we have hope..the tASSIE/TIGER..ISNT EXTINCT..damm caps..

*FAITH..rather than trust..SOMETHING EXIST..[your/FAith..HAS made you/well]..must be based..on the believability...OF/THE\Speaker.

[VIABILITY/VARIABILITY]..OF THE PROOF..presented..
how its...fruits ARE..of/...how..long the faitH fixes/a\RESPONSE..HOW MUCH..the/belief holds..influence as if true..[or..EVEN FRAUD;FAITHLESS].

eg/..without JESUS'S..BEST MATE/judia\betraying him..he
coud never..have died..FOR our siins.[tHUS IS..THE LEAST YET GREATER THAN THE baptiser]..BUT...FOR THE BETRAYAL/..NONE OF US...CAN CAST..our sins..[wr\orries/concerns/hopeS/FEARS/PROMISES..upon the scape-goat

<<>.Or..who decides..what is..*a rational...and/or..what an irrational belief,etc?>>

govt cannot..decree/man-date.faith..[NOR/ENFORCE UNFAIR-TERMS]..EVEN GOVT..[offialy]..LEAVES..THAT TO FREEWill/freechoice\.BUT..THEn makes..it../none\..CAN succeed..[SATAns clause]

THUS..THE CHoice lies..
within us/baring..the event of..no CHOICE.
.

<<Belief..is an idea>>
no an idea=a MINDFUL/creation..or
receipt/visualization..of a..mind picture/response/to\emotion..sent/from de*mONS OR AN*GELS..[DEeP.ENDING ON THE FRUITS OF THE MESS.AGE...[IdEA]

<<>..It/is..the idea..that something..is true.>>
clearly many beliefs..are wrong...thus untrue..but
we..*are loo,king..AT UNDER-STANDING..A CONCEPT..;ON faith=trust..usually..OF...others ideas/visualisations\..ONES WE HAVNT RECEIVED..DIRECT.

<<>...An irrational belief...is called faith.>>
no..its calLed..a delusion

<<>Faith..in the existence
0f a supreme..(ideal)..being is called religion.>>

NO SENsE INSPIRED;input../imPUTATION
[,,INput/is\..implanted.by a higher authority/0R\POWER
[MUCH>TO LESS<OSmosis..]

you..have faith.in/WORDS/THEORY\promise..we accept/
over the proof OF/the supreme..WE MUST IGNORE.

TO go/WITH\..THE.LOGIC OF LIGHT.[FRom the sUn]..SUStaining the life/0f\..THE SON\./..and the holy[light/life/active]spiriT SUSTAINING..*ALL LIVING..OF BOTH ..THE FATHer..[suN].and the son.

cause/means\way

so MUCH TRIune-WAS REVEALED TO ME YESTERDAY
i SHOULD HAVE TAKEN NOtes..but..the trinity[3]=[PLACE]..is a key [me=thee]..reveal/much more..than an idea..or concept..[article]..of faith.

yu/quote..<<..faith..(which truth]...isn't
a belief,.but..an attitude)

[application?]..GREAT POINT.
except..we are all cells...of THE ELEPHANT....[TOO CLEVER/BY HALF SELLS]..lol

<<>One should not confuse..between the two.>>
my guides say...be carefuL of absolutes/*\/[NEVER SAY NEVER*]

<<fear,>>...*THAT IT*..can be taken/away

<<awe>>..that even the least..is yet
SUSTAINED...ITS LIVING..BY THE MOST.

<<>.and wonder>>at the wonder'S woUNDINGS..wonderment in wanDERING..OF Our minds in wonder,,

<<AND inspired by natural phenomenon..for which..we had no rational explanation.>>..

..in its over all perfections..[by/chance?..KISMET OR PERFECT TIMMING..[regard-less/where time..shows..[REVEALS/UNVEILS]..its wonders..is in live time.

...the living gooD
cannot be bound..by words..nor spell-ing..only faith
[missPLACED-faith...in authority..can deceive THE MASSES..Beware the faiths..of the ides..of may-daZE..oh/ye..faitHESS GENERATIONS

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Dear George,

.

I wrote:

"Belief is an idea. It is the idea that something is true. An irrational belief is called faith. Faith in the existence of a supreme (ideal) being is called religion".

I then compared religion with the OED definition n° 4 of "ideology" (the topic of the article under discussion) and noticed that it corresponded to that definition, thus arriving at the logical conclusion that religion is an ideology.

However, as your googling activity appeared to have planted some doubt in your mind, I thought I should seek your reaction along with that of Peter Sellick whose article clearly implies that he considers Christianity and ideology as two entirely different, if not antagonistic, notions.

Hence my concluding - and quite sincere - invitation :

"I should be interested to read your arguments to the contrary."

To which you replied:

"You can have your definitions as you please, but you can then compare your opinions only with those who share your definitions."

I find that a rather nifty little side-step, George, which is a bit disappointing. I was hoping you would reciprocate and let me have the benefit of your own thoughts on the matter.

If you have other definitions to suggest, I should be pleased if you would agree to share them with me. I have an open mind on the matter and am more than willing to consider whatever you may be kind enough to offer, together, of course, with your own analysis and considered opinion.

.