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The Forum > Article Comments > The end of ideology? > Comments

The end of ideology? : Comments

By Peter Sellick, published 7/5/2014

There has been talk of 'values' as if it is recognized that we have lost all but means and ends; but it is hardly convincing.

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"It is not important what we have, but who we are."
- St Pope John Paul II
Posted by SHRODE, Wednesday, 7 May 2014 9:04:02 PM
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.

The author wrote ...

.

« Ideology is the conviction that history may be changed by ideas. Particularly, it has come to mean that ideas can lead us into an improvement of the estate of man. We begin to see this movement with Francis Bacon (1561-1626) … Indeed the whole discipline of the history of ideas is predicated on ideas being the driving force behind history. »

The Oxford English Dictionary indicates the following for «ideology» :
[ 1.
a. (a) The study of ideas; that branch of philosophy or psychology which deals with the
origin and nature of ideas. (b) spec. The system introduced by the French
philosopher Étienne Condillac (1715–80), according to which all ideas are derived
from sensations.
b. The study of the way in which ideas are expressed in language (see quot. 1826).

2. Abstract speculation; impractical or visionary theorizing. Now rare.

3. = IDEALISM n. 1. Obs. rare—1.

4. A systematic scheme of ideas, usually relating to politics, economics, or society and forming the basis of action or policy; a set of beliefs governing conduct. Also: the forming or holding of such a scheme of ideas. ]

In fourth position, ideology is defined as «a systematic scheme of ideas … forming the basis of (all) action or policy» - including that of «history» - not just «ideas which one is ‘convinced’ will change history». As the author himself rightly points out, ideas are « the driving force behind history».

This means that, as the author suggests, by upholding «that ethics has a divine origin and any attempt to do ethics on our own will be demonic », Christianity is clearly just as much an ideology as all those he decries.

Indeed, religion is one of mankind’s oldest, firmlly entrenched ideologies, finding its roots in the fear, awe and wonder inspired by natural phenomenon for which we had no rational explanation. Those primordial animist religions evolved down the ages into today’s long list of religions, including Christianity :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religions_and_spiritual_traditions

Not only is religion an ideology, it is a political ideology :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_ideologies

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Posted by Banjo Paterson, Thursday, 8 May 2014 2:02:08 AM
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.

(Continued ...)

.

"The end of Ideology", (the title of the article under discussion), would be the end of Christianity ... but I doubt that that is what the author wants.

Perhaps he was referring to his personal world view ... but I have my doubts on that too.

Just a misunderstanding, I guess ...

.

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Posted by Banjo Paterson, Thursday, 8 May 2014 2:58:01 AM
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banjo....MAYBE idiology//synonumbs\\HERE
http://thesaurus.com/browse/ideology

ideology/noun
Definition..of IDEOLOGY
*the basic beliefs..or guiding principles..of a person or group

<members of that sect..follow an ideology
of nonviolence..and freely given cooperation..Love..of otHER.>

Synonyms.;credo,..doctrine,....dogma,.gospel,
ideology/(also idealogy),.philosophy,/testament

Related Words...manifesto;..metaphysic,.theory;..axiom,..tenet, watchword

Variants..of IDEOLO

THE POINT BEING..we are..sick of creed/division/that
has divided..the church..[BODY OF CHRIST]..when jesUS CAME HERE..NOT TO..found 'a church'..but TO RESTORE ALL/BACK TO..OUR FATHERS HOUSE[BY LOVE/GRACE/MERCY]..damm caps..

jesus came..to say worry notTAabout the TARES..[DEMONS]..GROWING UP WITH..THE WHEAT..because..AT DEATH...THEY GET SORTED.[for the rest of you..do not judge other..inDEED LOVE Sister..love bother..love one and other]

and whosover..shall adulterate or make..less..these pRIME COMMANDS
STAND GUILTY..OF ADULTERY/adulteration..[in its proper context/NOT AS THE DECEPTION]THE NANNY STATE....SAW..MORALITY/INITIATED.

the church...cant be intimidated/SPIRITUALLY
BUT..MATEREIALY.IT HAS BECOME A.. DIVIDED HOME..IF YOU LOVE CHRIST/BEGIN BY AT LEAST forgiving..OTHERS IN YOUR OWN FREAKING HOMES...[WE HAVE SEEN..THE INJURY/division/DIRE-VERSION..THAT CREED CAN DO

DAMM CAPS[the key..board is.breaking up[MY TIME/HERE..IS NEAR UP]..I MUST STOP..MY ANGER..BUT TILL ..THE BODY OF CHIST gets unity..evil shall reign..

nothing is more urgent..than leaving...your offering at the alter

peter..please note that carefully..
YOU KNOW..HOW VITAL TYthe..[nothing iS MORE IMPORTANT][presumably]
YET READ MATTHew 5....
Anger and Reconciliation
…23"Therefore if you..are presenting your offering...at the altar, and there remember...that your brother...has something against you, 24*leave your offering there...before the altar..*and go;

*first...be reconciled to your brother,..
and.[only]..then come and..present your offering.

25"Make friends quickly...

CONTEXT\23/
http://www.biblegateway.com/resources/commentaries/?action=getChapterSections&cid=1&source=1&schap=23

mat 5 applies/TO\CHRISTS DIVIDED HOUSE*
AS SAid previously...the other creeds[messengers].2..ARE SAINTS..TRUE SAINTS

WE ARNT..to judge
we arnt.to divide
let god,,decide/

FOR NOW..SIMPLY 'DO' AS..WE SAW OUR MASTER.*DO.

he took on..THE MONEY CHANGERS

YET/MC/TOok over\the church
GOVT TURNED BELIEF..INTO AN/APPROVED\Charity/
subject to..govt/licenCE..IE..[mans laW]

..IT HAS SOLD OUT SPIRIT/eternal/for material..street/merket..glory

LEAVE YOUR GIFT...where it is/*]
thyne gift..is 4 nought..[with what...was it bought?]..the cost price....is not near the eternal..l-EARNING...of/IN SPIRIT..[ETERNITY]...worth nuthin/OUTSIDE..this materialis ream

for what..is chists HOUSE DIVIDED..?
that/fools..confound the wisE

what trumps/over..FORGIVENESS/GRACE MERCY...FOR THE REPENTANT?

THE IdIO\logie..logic..WHATEVER
idiology...MUST not/die..bUT..IT MUST NOT..BE ALLOWED..any further..to..TO DIVIDE THE fathers..[not just the CHRISTS]..DIVIDED HOME

idiologie ?
lets moVE ON...divisive Di Reversions begone
Posted by one under god, Thursday, 8 May 2014 5:54:49 AM
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Hi Peter,

I notice that you haven't adopted my suggestion of saying 'I' rather than 'we' when you make claims about the world which depend on your own opinions and experiences, rather than those of the seven billion other people who also occupy the planet. Apart from producing incoherent and misleading articles like this one, it also reveals a phenomenal degree of intellectual arrogance and a self-imposed blindness to the realities of life.

Most of us are quite happy with the current world. Most of us are delighted to have discovered a system of behaviour which actually achieves the tangible results that it promises. There is no 'we' -- there is only 'you'.

Please correct this oversight in future.
Posted by Jon J, Thursday, 8 May 2014 7:21:51 AM
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Peter,

An interesting sermon, although I am not sure this was the right place for it. By the way, the following might resonate with you

"The thought occurs to me whether we Christians have not in the course of history constantly fallen prey to the temptation to exchange the paradoxical God of Christ’s Easter story for a “familiar god” conforming to the human notions and expectations of specific epochs. Wasn’t the identification of the Biblical God with the god of the ancient philosophers as described by Plato and Aristotle – so fateful for the history of Christian theology – precisely one of those substitutions? "

The author is Tomáš Halík, a late convert, professor of sociology, psychotherapist and priest, and the quote comes from his 2014 Templeton Prize Lecture (www.jamesgregory.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/St-A-Halik-lecture.pdf).

Dear Banjo,

My googling brought up over 34 million responses to “ideology, religion”. Checking the first few I did not find one that would regard the latter a special case of the former, though, of course, there might be those among them that agree with you.
Posted by George, Thursday, 8 May 2014 7:23:32 AM
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