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The Forum > Article Comments > The end of ideology? > Comments

The end of ideology? : Comments

By Peter Sellick, published 7/5/2014

There has been talk of 'values' as if it is recognized that we have lost all but means and ends; but it is hardly convincing.

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Dear Yuyutsu,

.

Thank you for your input. I can see where you are coming from but your vision is too clouded with Hindu mysticism for me to get a proper focus on it. The image is blurred and I can’t distinguish it clearly.

As you wisely observe:

“Sadly, that's how religion is perceived from the outside, by a blind human”.

.

Dear one under god,

.

I am pleased to be able to say that I subscribe wholeheartedly to just about everything you have posted on this thread.

Even your “living good” is quite acceptable to me.

By the way, am I right in presuming that your court case was not quite as stressful as first appeared and that you managed to survive it OK ?

You seem to be back to your normal self, anyway.
Posted by Banjo Paterson, Friday, 9 May 2014 8:12:33 AM
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Dear Banjo,

>>If you have other definitions to suggest, I should be pleased if you would agree to share them with me. I have an open mind on the matter and am more than willing to consider whatever you may be kind enough to offer, together, of course, with your own analysis and considered opinion.<<

I am sorry, this is not my field of expertise, so I would not dare to compress into a few words the vast material that is available on the relation of religion and ideology. Of course, I could pick a few of those links provided by Google and copy-and-paste from it, but what would be the point?

Nevertheless, here for instance, is a concise explanation of the difference:

Ideologies, in fact, are sometimes spoken of as if they belonged to the same logical category as religions. Both are assuredly in a certain sense “total” systems, concerned at the same time with questions of truth and questions of conduct; but the differences between ideologies and religions are perhaps more important than the similarities. A religious theory of reality is constructed in terms of a divine order and is seldom, like that of the ideologist, centred on this world alone. A religion may present a vision of a just society, but it cannot easily have a practical political program. The emphasis of religion is on faith and worship; its appeal is to inwardness and its aim the redemption or purification of the human spirit. An ideology speaks to the group, the nation, or the class. Some religions acknowledge their debt to revelation, whereas ideology always believes, however mistakenly, that it lives by reason alone. Both, it may be said, demand commitment, but it may be doubted whether commitment has ever been a marked feature of those religions into which a believer is inducted in infancy. (http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/281943/ideology/12149/The-philosophical-context)

See also my older post to daviid f: http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=7816&page=0#124645.
Posted by George, Friday, 9 May 2014 8:26:39 AM
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The end of ideology equals the Spiritual Way of no ideas.
http://global.adidam.org/books/radical-transcendentalism

All ideas whether secular or so called religious (especially in this case those of reductionist exoteric Christian-ISM) are rooted in the separate and always separative ego-"I", the very dark essence of which is hell-deep fear.
Which inevitably creates the kind of blood-soaked applied Christian politics described via this reference.
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/cruelty.html
Posted by Daffy Duck, Friday, 9 May 2014 11:29:58 AM
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b*jp/quote..<<..presuming that your court case was not quite as stressful as first appeared and that you managed to survive it OK?>>

every point i raised was denied/THAT IS POLITICAL..mr defendant
but held court FOR 8 HOURS...COST 3oo..[wont mention GOVT SPENT OVER 10,000 getting it..[but they have a new 'clawback'/sceme..the judge..finned 300/BUT SOMEHOW BUREAUCRATS ALSO...SEND A DEMAND..FOR 103.50..FOR SOMETHING..CALLED AN ENFORCEMENT LEVI...[state enforcement act/1999-SECTION38[2]..its my...next..tONTI/project..ON APPEAL.

http://rss.infowars.com/20140507_Wed_Alex.mp3

I NEED..TO NARROW THE APPEAL Points down/so..i wilL test.the govt right to install...a levy...without a/LAWFULL-ORDER../PLUS THE Possession point[i hold officers..[ON DUTY]..can..ONY hold custody/but not..'POSSESS'..AND...IN POSSESION

I COULD PUSH...THAT I WAS UNDER POSSESSION..OF SPIRIT...but who isnt
regardless physical possession..../IS 9/10 TH LAW.BUT GOVT TAKING IT INTO Custody.proves i DIDNT HAVE POSSESSION[AS IN A CHAin of rightful..'posses'

<You seem to be back to your normal self, anyway.>>DAMM POST LIMITS[ie i write/THEN GET 100 over word count/AND SPITTING IT INTO TWO LIMITS MY ABIIty to reply[like i had to wait two hours to post]..often i forget and the moment has passed.

[george]..<<>.a concise explanation..of the difference:

<<>.Ideologies,..[spoken of as if they belonged
to the same logical category..>>....AND CEARLY Religions can have audioogy/mythology/but ideology DONT EQUATE/Imply*...necessarily..*a religion.

ie atheist

<<g>>Both are assuredly in a certain sense “total” systems, concerned..*.at the same time with questions of truth and questions of conduct;...but the differences between ideologies and religions are perhaps more important than the similarities.>>

key*..really..

<<.G>>..A religious theory..*[of reality]..>>

Practical realistic reality[day to day]...REAL..AS OPPOSED BY FAITH/SPIRITUAL OD OTHER DISPUTABLE 'REALITIES'.....

<<<.is constructed in terms of a divine order..and is seldom, like that of the ideologist,..centred on this world alone.>>

<<>.A religion may present a vision..of a just society,
but it cannot easily.?..have a practical political program.[?]

<<..The emphasis of religion..is on faith and worship;..>>
RESULTING IN GOOD[or better ]..'works/fruits..product/service'.<<...

<<..its appeal is to [ITS]..inwardness>>
AS WARDS OF..[in]..THE FATHER/sun..[GOD]/THE FSATHER/NOT Further nor furor..

<<..and its aim....AT[IS].the redemption [or/atONEMENT[AT-ONE-MEANT]..THAT REALIZE../A\..COMBINED Perfecting]...0f love/lived by MERCYGRACE/SERVICE.

<<..THE..purification..affectation of..HIGHER/godly aspects..OF the human spirit.>..As we saw the true master do

go away daffy/i ove ya/but rULE ONE/JESUS HAS A BODy
the church..of..wholly/WORTHY/attributes..TALENTS..YET WE EACH GET EQUAL GRACE/mercy.
Posted by one under god, Friday, 9 May 2014 12:56:52 PM
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.

Dear George,

.

You wrote to david f. :

« I agree that religion can easily (and unfortunately often) degenerate into ideology or science (more exactly pseudo-science, like pre-Enlightment Christianity, or even today those who are pushing ID as scientific theory). So in this sense you might be right that there is only a soft difference between religion and ideology. » http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=7816#124645).

That seems close to my own understanding except that I see ideology as a generic term applying in various domains, religion being one. This is on the basis of the OED definition of ideology as : « a systematic scheme of ideas, a set of beliefs governing conduct ».

Like you I am loathe to investigate the 34 million Google entries for ideology and religion. Your link to the article in Encyclopaedia Britannica is, unfortunately, incomplete and I am not prepared to pay the subscription fees to view the full article – which would be necessary for me to be able to judge the validity of the synthesis available for free.

The synthesis reveals, however, that it is in contradiction with the Oxford English Dictionary’s definition of the term “ideology”. This leads me to suspect that the article is somewhat tendentious – hence the necessity of a careful examination of the author’s arguments before I could possibly accord any credence to his conclusions.

Needless to say, the difference of interpretation of the meaning (explicit or implied) of the word ideology, between the author of the article and the Oxford English Dictionary, must necessarily be in favour of the latter, being the indisputable authority on such matters in the English language.

It is, nevertheless, apparent that there is no consensus among scholars on the relationship between ideology and religion – possibly partly because specialists of different disciplines have their own intellectual perspectives and references. Also, the eternal controversy surrounding the validity of religion is by no means conducive to the development of common methods and concepts.

Please allow me, therefore, Dear George, to adopt your suggestion, in such circumstances, that we leave it at that.

.
Posted by Banjo Paterson, Saturday, 10 May 2014 2:41:01 AM
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BANNED JEHOVA/BY\QUOTE.<.It is, nevertheless, apparent that there is no consensus among scholars on the relationship between ideology and religion –>>

wHAT CAME FIRST THE CHICKEN..OR THE EGG?
[CHICKENS ONLY COME FROM EGGS.

IDIOLOgy usually comes up/arises
once they woRDS OF THE MESSENGERS BECOME SACRED..
AND THE ESSENGERs words become literal/dont MIX THE THINGS OF MAN/WITH MATTERS ETERNAL..[OR so my guides..ARE TELLING ME TO WRITE]

<<>.possibly partly...because specialists of different disciplines have their own intellectual perspectives and references.>>

YES/LUTHER..HAS valid points/so too wesly
THEN MARY-ANNE/EddIE\BAKER/and swedenberg/EVEN THE PROFFIT/who heard the messages left in thE STRANGE LAND..point being..AS THE koran says..each notion was sent its mess-anger[im ONE OF THE WEB ONES..or the lAND OF OZ..[hAS the downunder recieved its meSS-ANGER..[YES WE HAVE A SAINT]..DO SAINTS HAVE 'IDIOLOGY/IS MARY..or terrasa..AN IDIOLOGY?

is the double helic of the snakes arround the staff a vision
recIEVED IN THE DIM DARK AGES...predicting the dna double helix..[who knows..ITS ABOUT WHAT COMES FROM Us by way of fruits

<<>.Also, the eternal controversy surrounding the validity of religion is by no means conducive to the development of common methods and concepts.>>

TAKE THAT BACK*
Posted by one under god, Saturday, 10 May 2014 4:59:12 AM
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