On an earlier post I mentioned death "a la naturale" that is being left to decompose naturally any where, I know this is not acceptable to society today, but my point was that if this was the case there would be no funeral or funeral service, our body returning to the elements, somebody would dig a hole, and because of the smell would inter us there, therefore religious ceremonies would not be required as nobody would know they existed, so lets face it, it is the hope of continuing some sort of being after death to the religious, as an Atheist when gone, gone, that's it.
Without any man made ceremony for the loved living relatives, which will happen with flight 370 missing, those presumed deceased people on board would just return to the elements "a la naturale"

Dear Banjo,

>>Who, then, commanded the finger to point in that particular direction?<<

Mysticism, contemplation, meditation is not about fingers that you can analyse. As I keep on saying, a metaphor is like a joke - either you get it or you don’t, rational analysis will kill it. So I should not have used a metaphor that did not convey to you what I had in mind.

Anyhow, there are heaps of literature on mysticism practiced by Eastern or Western mystics. I am not an expert on that, only understand that it is not about consciously imagining, visualising some things although visual impressions might be a side effect of that state of mind that for that mystic can point to something outside his consciousness.

You raise the problem of God’s existence (although you claim to have definitely solved it for yourself) at almost any opportunity. As you know, many (Eastern) mystics don’t believe in God of Western religions.

>> Who are funerals for anyway ? <<

For the bereaved to console them and - if they are Christians - through a more or less traditional ceremony to remind them of the existential hope that faith can provide.

By the way, “Fra” in my dictionary means “a prefixed title given to an Italian monk or friar”. I think Sellick is neither.

Banjo Paterson,
I do enjoy the "mock" humility you project early in a thread (so much nicer than Yuyutsu's genuine and consistent lack of it), the way you attract condescension and then nip at its approach is both edifying and amusing.

..."Socratic" I should have said.

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Dear George,
 
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You wrote :
 
“ Mysticism, contemplation, meditation is not about fingers ... As I keep on saying, a metaphor is like a joke - either you get it or you don’t, … [Remark: jokes can be explained and understood. Whether you find them funny or not is another matter].
 
… mysticism ... I am not an expert on that, only understand it is not about consciously imagining, … something outside his consciousness”.
 
In other words, George, for you it is inexplicable, a mystery (mysticism). For me, what you are trying to explain is simply imagination (image), a faculty, “activity” of the mind.
 
The mystic thinks he is looking at God, but it is simply an image produced by his own mind, his imagination. To employ your metaphor, he is looking at his own finger.
 
Through meditation he attains an advanced state of interior peace and tranquillity which liberates his mind from its habitual constraints, permitting new perceptions and apprehensions, associations and creations. Uninhibited imagination is just as capable of producing a stroke of genius as it is in producing illusions, hallucinations and mysticism.
 
“You raise the problem of God’s existence …”
 
I raise it for those who believe in the “possibility” of God.
 
“Fra” … an Italian monk or friar … I think Sellick is neither”
 
The English term, Friar (Fra) is derived from the Norman French word frère ("brother"), from the Latin frater ("brother") widely used in the Latin New Testament to refer to members of the Christian community.
 
In the Catholic Church, there are two classes of orders known as friars, or mendicant orders: the four "great orders" and the "lesser orders".
 
The four great orders mentioned by the Second Council of Lyons (1274) are:
 
· Dominicans, Franciscans, Carmelites, and Augustinians.
 
Unlike monks, friars are not cloistered.
 
A monk exercises his mission in a particular place. A friar exercises in a wider geographical area. As our friend, Sellick, exercises on the internet, I call him Fra Sellick.

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Dear Ojnab,

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I have been to several funerals here in Paris where there was no religious ceremony. Friends and family gathered at the funeral parlor at the hospital.

Those who so desired paid their last respects to the deceased before the coffin was closed. Then we all drove off to the cemetery where the coffin was lowered into the grave without a word being spoken. A few people threw flowers onto the coffin in the grave. Others threw a handful of soil.

In some cases, the close family of the deceased invited us to their home for light collations in order to prolong the gathering so that nobody should be left to bear the sorrow of his loss alone.

There was no church, no priest, no speeches, no god, no afterlife, and no manifestation of atheism.

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Dear Squeers,
 
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Nice to hear from you again.

You wrote:

“I do enjoy the "mock" (Socratic) humility you project early in a thread (so much nicer than Yuyutsu's genuine and consistent lack of it), the way you attract condescension and then nip at its approach is both edifying and amusing”.

I know from experience that I can always fool one or two people for a while but my appalling ignorance always ends up betraying me. Indeed, I dispose of an inexhaustible reserve of ignorance.

As it’s useless to try to hide it I adopt a low profile from the outset. Modesty is my second name. I walk in the shadows so that not even the slightest sign of light that might inadvertently emanate from my person goes unnoticed.

By disappearing into the decor I am not perceived as a threat and people tend to drop their guard. This allows me to get in the occasional “nip”, as you have observed, and I am delighted to hear it amuses you.

But now that the secret is out, it may not work anymore.
 
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