Interesting and original.

I may not entirely agree with your views, but you’re certainly thought provoking in a refreshingly rational way.

Thanks

Wow, up there for courage Mishka, & so true.

Tell me, do you have many female friends?

LOL Yes, Hasbeen, some women have thicker skins than one might think... and quite a few actually agree with me!

Be careful Clementine Ford does not agree with you.

http://www.dailylife.com.au/news-and-views/dl-opinion/what-does-it-mean-to-be-a-good-man-20140213-32klv.html

But congratulations on nice original thought provoking piece of work.

I don't want you to solve my problem (I'll have nothing to bitch about.) I just want you to listen to me bitch.

More than a few Mishka, the majority of women agree with you.

The Life and Death of Radical Feminism
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n51kdAFPN7U

Couldn't agree more - women's lib is/was abut equality of opportunity not about female domination. too many young men are being disennfrnachised - to our future peril.

Little Nora,
Socialism was about equality of opportunity but ideological Feminism ceased being socialistic a long time ago, what's afoot in 2014 is nothing but one obnoxious, nihilistic school of thought among many others.
Ideological Feminism needs to be put in it's correct place alongside the West's Neo Fascists, Neo Anarchists, Neo Bolsheviks and Neo Islamists, groups which are about the looks and the lifestyle and the catharsis of violence rather than thought or ideals and whose fashions and pop culture hark back to a bygone age.
Liberal Democracy permits all it's constituents to unite in groups and be as outrageous, rude and violent as they can be, Feminism is the largest and most powerful of these movements so it sets the standard for all the other degenerated "neo 20th century" identity groups.
See for yourself:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvEJfN-jiS4

I love this article. Young women have been deprived of their feminine power by the false ideology of feminism, which is all about hatred, drabness and dreariness, anti-men, anti-baby, anti-everything except tattoos and the slutwalk.

Mishka is simply leading a revival in true femininity. Women are powerful, but their power lies in their virtue, in their maternal gifts (whether they are mothers or not)and in their role as the moral arbiters of society.

A wise man said recently, "When men misbehave, the world keeps turning. When women misbehave, everything collapses." How true.

The icon of feminism is the female who uses other people's money to pay a 'doctor' to kill the child she has co-procreated. She thus instantly cripples and deforms her true feminine identity.

Mishka's woman is strong, invincible, able to change the world around her.

Thanks, Mishka, for the wisdom. Come the counter-revolution!

So it seems that feminists, especially of the "radical" variety are now responsible for all of the troubles in the world.

As I have pointed out B4 Mishka is a right-wing "catholic" who is closely associated with the right-wing "catholic" publishing/propaganda outfit Connor Court, which as far as I know is either owned by or has very close links to the deeply misogynist anti-feminist outfit opus dei.

But who IS responsible for the world-wide epidemic of deeply misogynist pornography, for the world wide epidemic of violence against women (including rape), for the massive world-wide sex-slavery industry, and for the associated male sex-tourism industry?
Certainly not anyone with a feminist persuasion!

Knowing that Mishka had first-hand experience of the horrors of the Kosovo/Bosnian war where traditional applied patriarchal politics with their murderously reasonable intentions was the psychotic disorder of the day, WERE the systematic atrocities committed there CAUSED BY FEMINISTS? It has been estimated that up to 50,000 women were systematically raped, and 200,000 or more men & boys ethnically "cleansed".

Are feminists responsible for creating the USA military-industrial-complex and its now permanent warfare state?
Were feminists responsible for all of the horrors of nazi Germany, and of the various totalitarian communist states?
Were feminists responsible for both of the world wars, and all of the other wars that occurred within the Christian sphere of influence both B4 and after the world wars? Especially the Protestant versus Catholic wars that occurred after and during the Protestant reformation and the "catholic" counter-reformation
Were feminists responsible for the entire Western (and Christian) imperial/colonial project?
Were feminists responsible for the slaughter of countless numbers of "witches" during the European "witch"-burning psychosis?
Did feminists write the "witch-burning" manual The Hammer of Witches?

Were feminists responsible for the creation and operations of the Inquisition?
Were feminists responsible for the deliberate slaughter (even extermination) of the Cathar and Albigensian "heretics"?

Would feminists have brutally tortured and murdered Jesus?

Dear Mishka,

I take great delight in pleasing my wife with Valentines Day gifts and recognition. I care little for debate about the socialized PC aspects of the day. I met my wife at Kindy when I was five and she was four. I delight in the pleasure she gets from re-igniting the passion that supports and sustains our relationship.

Social commentators producing the pro’s and con’s of what should and should not be appropriate are a reflection of what it is “they” are missing out on.

I have a solution.

Some years ago I founded a new company called CryoPet. For those who have well loved pets and wish to avoid the costs of transport, board, feed and vetenary services associated with leaving your pet whilst you go on holiday, we offer a great service.

We vacuum seal your pet, then deep freeze it. No costs other than the sealing/freezing/storing process. A fraction of the alternative costs and no time limits.

Since the social commentators are of such value that they should be preserved for posterity, meaning until they are eventually of value to society, I offer CryoPet as a solution for such commentators.

Whilst we freely admit that the weak link in our solution is the defrosting. We do have a great line in “Poodle Briolette”, “Soup Mix”, “Feline Supreme” and “Guinea Pig Hash”. I would dearly love to add to our extensive offerings with a classic “Social Busy Body Slushie”, a “Dysfunctional Lefty Iced Latte” or an “ABC Proselytizer Gravy Pie” to our gourmet menu.

The benefits to owners specifically, and society in general are that we don’t ever need to listen to them ever again, we can check on their progress by looking in the freezer, we can trade off the arrival of the technology to successfully defrost them against their value to society and most importantly, we can in the meantime get on with sustaining our relationships with our loved ones without commentary from those who seek to impose their value/moral interpretations on everyone else.

Call CryoPet Mishka.

Daffy Duck,
Feminism is hate.

“I feel that ‘man-hating’ is an honourable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them.” – Robin Morgan, Ms. Magazine Editor

“To call a man an animal is to flatter him; he’s a machine, a walking dildo.” -– Valerie Solanas

“I want to see a man beaten to a bloody pulp with a high-heel shoved in his mouth, like an apple in the mouth of a pig.” — Andrea Dworkin

“Rape is nothing more or less than a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear” — Susan Brownmiller

“The more famous and powerful I get the more power I have to hurt men.” — Sharon Stone

“In a patriarchal society, all heterosexual intercourse is rape because women, as a group, are not strong enough to give meaningful consent.” — Catherine MacKinnon

“The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race.” — Sally Miller Gearhart

“Men who are unjustly accused of rape can sometimes gain from the experience.” – Catherine Comins

“All men are rapists and that’s all they are” — Marilyn French

“Probably the only place where a man can feel really secure is in a maximum security prison, except for the imminent threat of release.” — Germaine Greer.

For a gal who doesn't like bossy women, this was one heck of a bossy article. Move over, Miss Jean Brodie!

I usually make a point of reading an entire article before commenting, but I had to make an exception in this case. I bailed at about paragraph 5, as I was drowning in faux-feminism tropes and clichés and mindsets and paradigms and myths and fallacies about women's equality being all about liddle girl-childwens not wanting to gwow up and making life so hard for the mens.

Yeah, sure. It sucks for men when women have the audacity to expect to get within coo-ee of 20% equality with them - but hey, there's still about 80% to go so your precious privileges are safe ... for now.

And by the way, if you want to know what to get your wife for Valentine's Day, forget the flowers and candlelight dinner. Just get her a cleaner for a day and she'll love you forever.

Here is another couple JOM.

Any man accused of rape should go to prison even if he did not do it, to make up for the ones who did do it & got away with it..... one of the Feminist Councillors at the Townsville Women's Shelter in the late 80's at a Claim the Night day in the Mall.

They were in uniform that day. Short back & sides, uncombed, Boilersuits & side boobs, no make up or deodorant & really nasty attitudes & obviously cheering for the other side (-; Telling everyman that walked past that the needed counselling & telling the wives that they were there to help them escape from the evil of men.

Also. Men who are nice to their wives only do so, so they can control them. My wife ex-friend who is a Women's Shelter Councillor.

I watched for an interesting few hours. It was hilarious.

If feminists knew how to be a woman they wouldn't say such idiotic things. It's the age-old female vs woman & male vs man. It's akin to trying to legislate against stupidity. Too stupid to realise it's a punishment so they strive on it.

An annoying article.
I hate to be told what women need.
As if all women can be lumped together in one holy basket.

Mishka, you should be thanking the 'feminists' and their supporters who came before us. For without them, you would not be enjoying the freedoms you have today.

“We need to reclaim the word 'feminism'. We need the word 'feminism' back real bad. When statistics come in saying that only 29% of American women would describe themselves as feminist - and only 42% of British women - I used to think, What do you think feminism IS, ladies? What part of 'liberation for women' is not for you? Is it freedom to vote? The right not to be owned by the man you marry? The campaign for equal pay? 'Vogue' by Madonna? Jeans? Did all that good s##t GET ON YOUR NERVES? Or were you just DRUNK AT THE TIME OF THE SURVEY?”
― Caitlin Moran, How to Be a Woman"

Suse

'... only 29% of American women would describe themselves as feminist - and only 42% of British women'

What's so terrible about that? 29% is just under 1 in 3 and 42% is almost 1 in 2. Considering the relentless smearing, distorting and misrepresenting of feminism in the mainstream media - where most people form their views about feminism - I'd say they're pretty good statistics.

Add to that the fact that feminism is a political philosophy (or tool of analysis of the distribution of power across the genders) and only really manifests as a movement from time to time to achieve specific goals (for the vote, EEO, rape law reform etc). Considering most people prefer to see themselves as a-political, it's heartening to see that at least 1 in 3 American and 1 in 2 British women are sufficiently gender-politicized to identify themselves as feminist within a very anti-feminist political culture.

you would not be enjoying the freedoms you have today.
Suseonline,
At that cost I'd rather have less of your so-called freedom. What is the freedom due to feminism anyway ? All I see is stupidity & a decline of our conditions.

Daffy Duck

I found your post deeply offensive. It was contained blatant misandry and discrimination.

Daffy Duck your inference was it was only men who had initiated and participated in the evils you named.

Daffy Duck it was only evil men and evil women who were involved in these things.

Daffy Duck men also suffered from these evils.

Daffy Duck you should have asked your questions and qualified them using those terms.

And wooohooo in describing a politically correct person I finally get to use the word angry.
lol

While some of OLO's ardent men-hating radical feminists are manning (womynning?) the barricades to hurl abuse at a women who has the temerity to think for herself and make her own choices, I would like to take the God-given (sorry they hate religion so as well, not an approved literary allusion approved by the Sisterhood) opportunity to pose a question or two. So here goes nothing.

Q: Are all radical feminists lapsed Catholics who believe their father abandoned them or otherwise did them wrong? What is it with that?

Q: Wouldn't the Lord's Prayer be more useful to them and give them release from the heavy baggage they carry? Even if that baggage gives them a whipping boys as excuses for all that goes wrong in their sorry hate-driven worlds?

To be short and blunt, isn't 'adult' better than 'feminist'? Y'know, deal your own self-limitations, do what you love and be accountable for your own choices in life rather than wasting your lives blaming dad who is probably dead by now anyhow?

Yeah I know, 'Incoming!', but hey, men have broad shoulders and so do well-adjusted women, that is a metaphor. Vive la difference!

A long long time ago, A time I still remember when...

I had a serious operation & spent 12 months recovering. How ever I was bored at home so I went to the Boss & asked to come back to work in the Workshop. No Way! So I went to the General Manager who relented & put me in an Office with 8 women.

Well that was an experience I'll never forget. I became the sounding board or Dear Abby for all the women. I got to hear a lot of personal things I shouldn't have but that's not the point of this story. The entire Office, although cordial & peaceful on the surface was on a constant boil underneath. Every woman told me of their bitch with every other woman in the Office. That's where I learn't a saving grace. Aha Ha... Hmmmmmm. Aha Ha...... Hmmmmm. & how do you feeeeel about that.

I pulled the GM up one day & said when I leave here you probably get lots of complaints about me & I told him what I was subjected to. What did he say. Yeah, I know. & you think we have it easy in the Office working with women.

So, What do women need. Just someone to bitch to all day long. Preferably a deaf person with a big smile & Aha Ha..... Hmmmmmmm. (-;

Killarney, "..feminism is a political philosophy (or tool of analysis of the distribution of power across the genders) and only really manifests as a movement from time to time to achieve specific goals"

Pull the other one Dear, it rings bells.

The educated, middle class elite who are feminism are doing very well out of riding the gravy train on a daily basis and likely have lived off it for the whole of their working lives. Examples could be feminist Julia Galah'd (Obama's pronunciation and spot on!) who like her guru Greer is living the good life in early retirement in an expensive bungalow and looking to her feminist mates to deliver lucrative work paid for from the public purse. It is a mateship thing. Exclusive. Emily's List.

Honestly Killarney, to say what you did leaves you as either a dupe, or one of the privileged Grrl mates who have been riding high on the hog from their gender wars for years, while claiming to represent 'women', whom they actually look down on and despise. That is no secret when they judge and insult women for doing what comes naturally to them. An example that is always topical for the feminists is their relentless criticism even disgust of breastfeeding, instead of handing infants over to State-funded childminding for bottle feeding on a production line.

Adoration of material things is one of the key differences between western feminists and the women they always know what is best for but never ask, let alone take any notice of.

Daffy Duck, thanks for the laugh.

Your first sentence is bit of a leap of logic, but you said it! I'm not responsible for the irrational conclusions you draw from my article.

And I'm really flattered that you a) researched my background; and b) think I'm connected to the tentacled secret organisation Opus Dei of Dan Brown's imagination. I hate to confess it, but I'm not a member. How boring, I know! I submitted my award-winning essay to Connor Court like any other budding academic, had it peer-reviewed, then waited a very long time for it to be published.

As for your final question, "Would feminists have brutally tortured and murdered Jesus?" I have to answer yes. Would they have encouraged a teenage girl who had fallen pregnant out of wedlock to abort her Son so that she wouldn't "ruin" her life? Yes, probably. And is there more than one popular Facebook group for people who think Mary should have aborted Jesus? Yes. And does abortion brutally dismember an unborn child? Yes. In fact, this idea seems to be a pretty popular one among pro-abortion activists. But thanks for bringing it up!

What do feminists really think Pt 167.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhvM3BKuWvg
Batsh!t crazy would be the most charitable description of the speaker.

Not all feminists are like that? Prove it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQWoNhrY_fM

Canadian professor of law and Feminist Elizabeth Sheehy writes that abused women should stay with their abuser and kill him rather than leave the home and that the courts should err on the side of self defence in all such cases:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OJCzJHeyfQ&list=UU255AfKquZnQMO0amxdEGWw

Killarney, Feminism is most definitely not a philosophical school of thought, it's the exact opposite.

I think most females become feminists once their looks & mentality don't attract men anymore. Most women are just that, women & a big thanks to them.

Indi,
I think it's more that women and men in general don't know anything about the true, nihilistic nature of Feminism.
When I talk about Feminists it's with a capital F, all the anti Feminist bloggers and Youtubers I subscribe to are very clear on that distinction, we're not having a go at women in general, just the demagogues and their supporters.
I had a very Liberal upbringing, my mother and her friends were "Women's Libbers", they were a part of the first women's studies group in our district and so forth, what they are not however is capital F Feminists like the ones I've listed previously.
Women's Lib at the grass roots level (at least among the women I grew up around) encouraged women to take responsibility for their own lives, to re-learn skills their pioneer ancestors took for granted, to work with their hands as well as their minds and to seek the truth, or at least live a true existence.
Capital F Feminism (second wave, whatever, they of the SCUM manifesto) is the exact opposite of those ideals:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVuK44kWgxk

What I find really, really strange is, that these Fanatic Feminists so hate & put men down with such vengeful vexious & vociferiousnous that they strive to act, dress & be like men.

I find that very strange, indeed.

A feminist is as a feminist does. I know that feminists want to be given a leg up to become public service managers and on the boards of private companies. They like Audis, expensive clothes and 'networking' dinners sponsored by employers.

They apparently prefer highly paid functions, not work, where the systems are already developed by others and they can contribute their 'people management', 'communication' and 'networking'. Sinecures.
Not sleeves rolled up doing or making, those are duties for the common herd, men and women they look down on.

I have yet to meet a feminist interested in the heaps of available trades work. Highly paid roofing, drains, tiles, bricks, electrical and so on. Please put your hand to start 7.00am sharp any day.

Icy silence from the western feminists.

No surprises there, one cannot expect the comfortable educated middle class elite who own feminism and drive policy to suit their materialism and conspicuous consumption to be out there getting their hands dirty. That is for their class and intellectual lessers and dupes who believe their spin.

One day soon as death looms we all come to realise that the really important things in life come from those mundane family and friends contacts, events and caring, and being of service to their community, all 'onerous traditional duties' ('traditional' is a slur) so despised by that 'Progressive' educated middle class feminist elite.

Jay of Melbourne,
The term Womens Liberation is a misnomer in the first place because feminists are not women, they're mere females misguided by perverse instinct.

Indi, it is perverse but not all Feminists are women, a great number are Men and they're the most wretched and deranged of all:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVz_ej7wS98
The relatively new "Toxic Masculinity" meme is beyond the pale, this whole White Ribbon nonsense has to stop, the guys in that video actually come right out and say that male Feminists are worshippers of women.

AU women have lost the plot. There are hundreds of asian women coming to AU as wives, and they make good wives, old style and very possessive.

I'm wondering if anybody else noticed a post by Rosarium early in the thread. http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=16039&page=0#278102

In particular
"Women are powerful, but their power lies in their virtue, in their maternal gifts (whether they are mothers or not)and in their role as the moral arbiters of society."

I get the impression that the sentiments expressed there have a lot in common with the sexism of the dominance feminists. A belief that women are somehow better people than men.

I've not seen any evidence that either gender holds a monopoly on decency, ethics, morality, virtue etc. At most women may generally be fonder of particular sexual morals which suit their own needs.

The genders do have differences in the tools we choose to achieve our objectives, we do have different drives but on balance I don't think a case can credibly be made to suggest one gender is or should be regarded as more virtuous.

Both genders have their greats and those who try to plumb the depths of low.

R0bert

Good point, R0bert. Neither sex has a monopoly on morality or virtue. Though women do have a monopoly on nurturing a child from conception until birth, and that is a responsibility that does indeed set women apart from men.

Many of us have married while on overseas postings or while travelling. I can recommend Southern Italian: beautiful, forever slim, into cooking, home crafts and family (not jealous about 'his' extended family as applies so often in Oz, where some/many have inherited US female's jealousy of in-laws), multilingual, travelled and will work P/T.

Great to be able to sit around a huge table groaning with Mediterranean food here in Oz or O/T and all are welcomed. We all contribute and there isn't that beefing/confusion/awkwardness about roles and bitchiness.

I wasn't the only one who was fortunate, there are many of us about. :)

While there are many nice women in Oz and many of those can be found via water sports like lifesaving and sailing, there seems to be a lot of baggage around and in young singles too. Oz women just don't seem to know what they want and many are controlling, but directionless. I hate to say it but there is a heck of a lot of egocentrism and entitlement, 'Me, me, me' and laziness in Oz. The young men are not immune from that and so many are unsure of their role.

Go travel, guys ;)

Will "Feminism Gone Wild" be the movement that brings society crashing down?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w__PJ8ymliw

Feminism gone wild in person:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zi1gortW-Zs

R0bert (quoting Rosarium)

'Women are powerful, but their power lies in their virtue, in their maternal gifts (whether they are mothers or not)and in their role as the moral arbiters of society'

women's power lies in:
their virtue = patriarchal construct
maternal gifts = patriarchal construct
moral arbiters of society = patriarchal construct

women's power lies in:
financial and emotional independence = feminist construct
equal gender parenting = feminist construct
an end to moral double standards = feminist construct

In the traditional view of women, and that of all the posters here other than Daffy and Suse, power is fine for women, as long as that power is designed by and for men's benefit. Feminism turns that power construct completely on its head and that is why it generates so much irrational and vicious hatred.

Killarney,
Feminism is a nihilistic revolutionary school of thought like Bolshevism or Nazism, it's a movement of cronyism, tyranny and destruction.
100% of Feminists are anti male,anti family female supremacists, if you don't agree you're not a Feminist and if you dare to confront their hateful fanaticism, corruption and criminality you get death threats and they'll try to ruin your career.
You're so adamant that Feminism is a force for good, go to Youtube and find some videos of Feminist activism which benefits the entire community and not just their own narrow economic and political interests.

Women are indeed the moral arbiters of society. Many women are losing out because they refuse to take up this role.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wqAVlMu82MI

I rest my case.

Killarney, owka, the mad Irish woman. Lovely name My Grandmother was from Thurles in Tipperary.

I know & You know that women are the power behind the throne. Even the American Indians Society when the big Chiefs had their big Powwow the men sat in a circle & talked & the women sat behind them with a stick & told them what to say. So it is with all Societies. Isn't Judaism a Matriarchal Society. Who actually runs the major Corporations? The male Boss or his female Secretary? Women should be careful what they pray for, in winning the fight they just may lose the War.

That's just utter bullsh!t Rosarium, I'm assuming you're a Lesbian because nobody who's ever been intimate with a man could buy that load of misandric bollocks.
Women's experience of sex is almost wholly materialistic while Men's is wholly emotional.
Women's sexuality is primarily a means of exchange and a method of gaining status and benefits for themselves,it's only reproductive technology which enables them to have sex for reasons other than reproduction. With men it's all about bonding and acceptance, men are far more emotionally invested in sexual relations than women, they are also far more likely to commit suicide or suffer mental illness after a breakup.
You're right about female power, women have always been the arbiters of what and whom are socially acceptable, that's why men are so emotionally devastated by sexual rejection or ostracism from the sexual pecking order.
If you want to spend some pursuing the truth of the matter listen to this and stop looking for validation in Feminist nonsense:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6zfvTevS68

Jay, your post simply supports my assertion that women are the more powerful sex. I agree with the assertions of the video, but it is simply one of life's paradoxes that when men commit to relationships and are abandoned they suffer more and have fewer recuperative powers. The same goes for boys in family breakup.

It is fact now that most family breakups are initiated by women. They can rely on the state to support their efforts. And women are just as violent as men - I've witnessed it in refuges where the women bash their kids.

The 2008 Abortion Bill in Victoria was successful because of the assiduous efforts of a group of women - including ALP luminaries Jo Kirner and Julia Gillard - in convincing male politicians to legalise tearing defenceless small babies in the womb to pieces. Right up to birth, for any or no reason whatsoever and using taxpayers' money to pay doctors to do their dirty work.

And no, far from being a lezzo, Jay.

As a Catholic, I look to the most powerful creature who will ever walk on this planet. If more women imitated her the world would be a much happier, more peaceful place.

Rosarium,
There are so many females out there if only we could find a way to make them all women. The same of course goes for males.
Stop the chat shows & football on TV might help.

Rosarium,
Fair enough I see where you're coming from, but why post that video?
The link I supplied says much the same thing, women have historically held the upper hand in the mating game, which is really the only game in town and Feminism merely inverts the truth to give women total control without their having to take on any of the responsibilities of womanhood or matriarchy.

Rosarium, it surprises me that as a devout Catholic woman, you believe that women are the more powerful sex?

The strongly patriarchal Catholic Church does not allow women to be in any 'powerful' positions in the church, and states they have no contraception or abortion, so they would ideally spend all their reproductive years either pregnant or breast feeding.

Calling Mary a 'creature' is different too...

As for your very patriarchal and Catholic position on legal abortion, I would ask you how taking the decision of whether to be pregnant or not out of the hands of women would make them powerful in any way?

Suse,
It's only a contradiction if you view the world as a progressive narrative, as recently as the 1920's up to 30% of women might remain lifelong spinsters for one reason or another so a good proportion had no choice one way or another.
There's also the progressive false consciousness which dictates that men who existed beyond the living memory of our contemporaries were brutes who had no compassion whatsoever.
Men have always loved their wives and children, wives have always loved their husbands and children, Men respected their wives and vice versa, they were no different to the people of 2014 in that regard.
Do you seriously think that husbands and wives didn't sit down and discuss family affairs, plan their pregnancies and take steps to avoid unwanted children? If a Man in 1600 or 1900 was faced with possibly losing his much loved wife and child at any point in the pregnancy or in labour don't you think he'd be very careful about how and when they made love? Knowledge of ovulation and women's monthly cycle is, for want of a better word "primordial", couples have always known the best time to have sex and no doubt engaged in non penetrative lovemaking when they didn't want to fall pregnant,Dr Alex Comfort didn't just invent all those sex acts in 1972 did he?

JoM, obviously this 'natural' family planning you speak of didn't work too well in heavily Catholic Ireland, because my Irish husband was one of nine children, and there were no families in the village of less than 7 children.....unless the mother had to have an emergency hysterectomy after only a few kids.

The family that lived across the road from my husbands family had 22 children!
Do you honestly think many men in those days would suggest to only have sex when it was 'safe'? It was the women who made those decisions, not the men.

I used to give the the lectures on contraception to the new mothers in the maternity wards before they went home.
We discussed all methods of contraception, including the 'billings method'.
There was always snickers of derision when I mentioned this pathetic method, because many told me that was the reason they were now here in the maternity ward!

Suse,
Some couples still have lots of kids, some have a few, some have none, it's always been that way. Ireland hasn't fundamentally changed it's attitude toward contraception yet it's in the same demographic crisis as the rest of the EU with a below replacement level birth rate.

Rubbish JoM.
The vast majority of the women of Ireland use contraception now, and the families are much smaller now.
Viva La Pill!

To move on, the very serious problem affecting women is the political correctness that prevents open and enlightened discussion of the much larger, more prevalent pool of STIs they are exposed to by men who engage in bisexual sex.

It is complicated by gay activists' claim that anyone who indulges in homosexual sex is a homosexual. Also by the foolish publicity that condom use can always prevent the transmission of HIV. Perfect application and use might help, but women need to know, and have the right to know, if their prospective partner's sexual choices put them into the very high risk category. Homosexual sex is very high risk, including with a 'raincoat' that is easily dislodged or damaged.

When will legislators grasp the nettle to require any man who has engaged in homosexual sex within (say) six years to declare that fact to a woman as a necessary part of obtaining her prior consent to sex? Penalty, a custodial sentence.

Why concentrate on women in this situation? Obvious!