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The Forum > Article Comments > The rainbow, the cross and the crescent clash in the Australian Defence Force > Comments

The rainbow, the cross and the crescent clash in the Australian Defence Force : Comments

By Bernard Gaynor, published 31/1/2014

Is Bernard Gaynor being expelled from the Defence Force for thought crimes which the Defence Force's own laws allow?

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Marie79, You know as well as I do. There is Military Law & then there is the "SYSTEM" & the System is very, very prevalent.

I have a great love of the Army too but I learnt one thing in the Army, never, never cross the "SYSTEM."
Posted by Jayb, Friday, 31 January 2014 5:04:20 PM
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Good onya Marie79.

Pete
Posted by plantagenet, Friday, 31 January 2014 6:01:12 PM
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Marie79: The policies are clear - no political activity while a member. You broke those policies and they have (in my opinion, quite rightly) decided you are not fit to be an officer.

Yep, crossed the "SYSTEM." & the "SYSTEM" seems to be populated in the Officers Corps by the Politically Correct, Gay & those that suck up to the wishes of Minority Politicians & Groups or stick their necks out. As a Senior Officer told me a few years ago in the Mess, "If you make a decision & it's wrong you get hung, so it's best not to make a decision. Leave that up to your Sergeant & he can put the blame on the men." Well at least the Soldiers, for now, are still, for the most part, MEN.

I had 15 years of the Army "SYSTEM."
Posted by Jayb, Friday, 31 January 2014 6:30:23 PM
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Marie79,

I did not say everyone who is religious faces the sack. Only those who express traditional Christian views about homosexuality. Or who think that Islam should be critically analysed, not protected as sacred.

As for the flawed logic of your comment I will say this. It's a bit silly to claim that I was cleared of military charges because policies don't apply to me when I'm not on duty, but then praise termination action on the basis that I didn't follow policies that don't apply to me. Apart from that, I have not broken the intent of any policies either.

I have a duty to follow all policies that apply to me. If they don't apply, I can't very well face any form of administrative sanction for not following them. And there are no loopholes in the distinction between Regular and Reserve personnel. They are two very separate categories and Reserves serve in a very different (and restricted) way. Hence the restricted nature of defence policy application to their non-Defence lives.

As for your claim that political activity is forbidden for military members, there are two points to make.

1. You don't seem to care that DEFGLIS members do carry out political activity and in uniform. Why are homosexuals allowed to do this when no one else can?

2. You don't know the policy. It states no political activity in uniform or linked to Defence.
Posted by Bernard Gaynor, Friday, 31 January 2014 7:56:20 PM
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Just so everyone is clear, DI(G) Pers 21-1 Political Activities of Defence Personnel states this:

Defence personnel may:

a.join a political party or organisation and take an active part in its affairs provided they do not identify any part of Defence with any political activity;

b.attend political meetings provided they do not identify any part of Defence with any political activity;

c.write letters to newspapers expressing their personal views about public issues, subject to compliance with the provisions of DI(G) ADMIN 08–1—Public comment and dissemination of information by Defence members and provided they do not identify any part of Defence with any political activity; and

d.express their personal opinions on a political party, candidate or an issue, but not as Defence personnel.

Later, it says this:

Defence members must not, in any activity of a political nature:

(1)use their rank when identifying, describing, or referring to themselves;

(2)wear their uniform;

The constitution of the Mardi Gras and the participants in it show that it clearly has a political nature. Since when is an event with Labor and the Greens not political?

ADF participation in Mardi Gras is a breach of ADF policy. And I haven't started on the more serious breaches of ADF policy regarding sexual activity in the workplace. We'll leave that for another day.
Posted by Bernard Gaynor, Friday, 31 January 2014 7:58:43 PM
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The policies are clear - no political activity while a member.
Marie79,
What, no matter how wrong, bad, corrupt, inept, irresponsible etc. you can't speak up ? How do they ever get around to sort out any unpalatable behavoiur ? Could that be the reason this country is descending in both morality & mentality ?
From what I have seen the ADF is a career move with love for the country way down the list & when something goes dreadfully wrong because of dreadfully incompetents they all become dead heroes.
Posted by individual, Saturday, 1 February 2014 7:23:58 AM
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