I sympathize Bernard. I've went through a similar type of thing in 69.

I had my Commanding Officer sacked, (Ministerial) his replacement sacked me.

I guess now if you want to join the Military you have to be a Transgender, Gay, Muslim.

Reading your post I think they have done the right thing is saking you. I'd add they should have done it sooner if this is the type of analyst advice you used to provide.

Bernard, your article is an appalling inditement of political correctness gone mad. Continue to fight for your right to express what you believe in. The ADF has fought many battles for your right to do so. It is curious that those who denigrate you are those who whinge so stridently when they are questioned or challenged.

Hopefully, the Defence Forces & the Public Service will gradually increase their quota of heterosexual non ALP cronies, bringing back some normalcy & above all competence & integrity & accountability. We can now see how badly things work without these qualities.

I hope our logistical people have corrected the ratings for various items getting to the front line.

Weapons & ammunition should now be rated as B class items.

Powder puffs mirrors & hair brushes will be raised to A class items. Wouldn't want these poor girls & lady boys dying with a shiny nose, or a bad hair day, now would we?

Mr Gaynor,

You have made, and continue to make, public declarations against the ADF and its members. You are not being discharged because of your religious beliefs, if that was the case there would basically be no one left in the ADF - myself included. You are being discharged because you are publicly stating those opinions - against the ADF - while also making very clear that you are an Army officer.

You were not cleared of the charges; you simply were not subject to military jurisdiction due to your reserve service. Permanent members are subject 24/7, whereas reserve members are only subject to military justice while actively on duty. To make it simple - you got off through a loophole.

The policies are clear - no political activity while a member. You broke those policies and they have (in my opinion, quite rightly) decided you are not fit to be an officer.

You have every right to your opinion, as a civilian, and I wish you luck in those endeavours - just please don't continue to damage the ADF that I love by pretending to be a spokesperson for us.

Marie79, You know as well as I do. There is Military Law & then there is the "SYSTEM" & the System is very, very prevalent.

I have a great love of the Army too but I learnt one thing in the Army, never, never cross the "SYSTEM."

Good onya Marie79.

Pete

Marie79: The policies are clear - no political activity while a member. You broke those policies and they have (in my opinion, quite rightly) decided you are not fit to be an officer.

Yep, crossed the "SYSTEM." & the "SYSTEM" seems to be populated in the Officers Corps by the Politically Correct, Gay & those that suck up to the wishes of Minority Politicians & Groups or stick their necks out. As a Senior Officer told me a few years ago in the Mess, "If you make a decision & it's wrong you get hung, so it's best not to make a decision. Leave that up to your Sergeant & he can put the blame on the men." Well at least the Soldiers, for now, are still, for the most part, MEN.

I had 15 years of the Army "SYSTEM."

Marie79,

I did not say everyone who is religious faces the sack. Only those who express traditional Christian views about homosexuality. Or who think that Islam should be critically analysed, not protected as sacred.

As for the flawed logic of your comment I will say this. It's a bit silly to claim that I was cleared of military charges because policies don't apply to me when I'm not on duty, but then praise termination action on the basis that I didn't follow policies that don't apply to me. Apart from that, I have not broken the intent of any policies either.

I have a duty to follow all policies that apply to me. If they don't apply, I can't very well face any form of administrative sanction for not following them. And there are no loopholes in the distinction between Regular and Reserve personnel. They are two very separate categories and Reserves serve in a very different (and restricted) way. Hence the restricted nature of defence policy application to their non-Defence lives.

As for your claim that political activity is forbidden for military members, there are two points to make.

1. You don't seem to care that DEFGLIS members do carry out political activity and in uniform. Why are homosexuals allowed to do this when no one else can?

2. You don't know the policy. It states no political activity in uniform or linked to Defence.

Just so everyone is clear, DI(G) Pers 21-1 Political Activities of Defence Personnel states this:

Defence personnel may:

a.join a political party or organisation and take an active part in its affairs provided they do not identify any part of Defence with any political activity;

b.attend political meetings provided they do not identify any part of Defence with any political activity;

c.write letters to newspapers expressing their personal views about public issues, subject to compliance with the provisions of DI(G) ADMIN 08–1—Public comment and dissemination of information by Defence members and provided they do not identify any part of Defence with any political activity; and

d.express their personal opinions on a political party, candidate or an issue, but not as Defence personnel.

Later, it says this:

Defence members must not, in any activity of a political nature:

(1)use their rank when identifying, describing, or referring to themselves;

(2)wear their uniform;

The constitution of the Mardi Gras and the participants in it show that it clearly has a political nature. Since when is an event with Labor and the Greens not political?

ADF participation in Mardi Gras is a breach of ADF policy. And I haven't started on the more serious breaches of ADF policy regarding sexual activity in the workplace. We'll leave that for another day.

The policies are clear - no political activity while a member.
Marie79,
What, no matter how wrong, bad, corrupt, inept, irresponsible etc. you can't speak up ? How do they ever get around to sort out any unpalatable behavoiur ? Could that be the reason this country is descending in both morality & mentality ?
From what I have seen the ADF is a career move with love for the country way down the list & when something goes dreadfully wrong because of dreadfully incompetents they all become dead heroes.

Bernard Gaynor,

For you the tips of the fingers of my right hand are at a level just above my right eye.

Great article.

I note these events:

http://www.smh.com.au/national/sexchange-soldier-forces-army-to-scrap-transgender-policy-20101204-18ks9.html

http://www.news.com.au/national/transgender-lieutenant-colonel-cate-mcgregor-speaks-out-about-abuse-and-support/story-fncynjr2-1226674523255

Has there been any effect on operational competence from these 'appointments'?

The author says:

"I believe that the Islamic religion is inherently violent and a predominantly political ideology with a well-developed legal rationale justifying armed conflict. This fits the actions of those who battle the ADF or seek to impose terror within Australia. As such, my view is that it is not in Australia’s interests to have a rapidly increasing Islamic population. This contrasts with the politically-correct belief that Islam is a peaceful religion and that a growing Islamic minority benefits all Australians."

Truer words have never been said and I congratulate the author. His sensible views are to be contrasted with the views and actions of the Greens who take Islam's side against Australia, as does publically funded organisations like the ABC.

The idea that Islam is moderate and capable of assimilating into a modern, civilised, Western democracy like Australia is a contradiction in terms:

http://theclimatescepticsparty.blogspot.com.au/2013/12/the-moderate-muslim.html

I had some sympathy for Bernard’s argument until I visited his website. It is one thing to disapprove of the army’s support for homosexuals, quite another to launch vitriolic personal attacks on a named individual officer who identifies as transgender. No organisation should tolerate this kind of public and personal attack by one senior member on another under the guise of critiquing its policy. I suspect it is not Bernard’s politically incorrect views on homosexuals or Islam that has got him into trouble, but personal abuse directed at fellow officers, the defence Minister, and anyone else he disapproves of (the list is long).

The right to free speech is precious, but it does not exempt people from consequences when they exercise that right. If Bernard wants to run a website dedicated to attacking the army, its policies, and individuals within it, he can’t at the same time continue to serve as an officer.

Rhian: No organisation should tolerate this kind of public and personal attack by one senior member on another under the guise of critiquing its policy.

You are probably right Rhian. So how do you feel about the fanatical Tranny slagging off at Bernard in the first instance. I do believe she was disciplined for it.

Rhian,

You are right - I have fired off some shots at Lieutenant Colonel McGregor. That was because the Army allowed him to not just express views that argued against Catholicism, but were nothing more than expletive-filled insult. He signed off as an Army officer.

Then this officer attacked my family personally and he continues to call me an 'online bully' in media interviews in which he is in uniform. I am given no right of reply or chance to highlight what actually happened.

Like most Australians, I will not stand back and let a military officer attack my family or beliefs while in uniform. Nor will I accept any order to refer to him as female, when he himself says that his genitalia is masculine and that he just wants to live as a woman. It is an insult to all women, including my wife and daughter who are truly female, unlike this imposter.

Get to the bottom of the story. Read this:

http://bernardgaynor.com.au/questions-raised-about-ltcol-mcgregors-interference-in-my-career/

Get to the bottom

Bernard
it seems you are both at fault. The other party has been disciplined. Why shouldn't you be?

Bernard. Was just reading through your site. Holy dooly! What an ordeal for you, and in the most um bazaar surroundings.
Anyway.Looking through, next minute a Happy Birthday pop-up, popped up on the screen with 1st FEB. I thought wow! how nice I wonder who sent that to me. It was for you haha. Ahh small things...

The fault, in the first place, was letting these people in. Before I resigned in 76 I was he Recruiting Sergeant for 31Bn. We had courses on dissuading people who wanted to go Camping.

Though there were very few in the Ranks & they were got rid of very quickly if found out. The Officer Corps has always been full of Homosexual. I even had a distant cousin who was a Major in 8 R.A.R. I believed he ended up in Canberra. Figures.

Bernard, from what I have read here, they were right to sack you from the army.
Your views are archaic and offensive.

If, as you stated, you are such a strict Catholic, then why would you join the army?
Thou shalt not kill is a strong commandment I would have thought.

If men or women join the army, they are all taught to fight in the same way aren't they?
Who they have sex with surely doesn't have any bearing on their ability to serve the country does it?

I assume you are just as horrified by any of the heterosexual military people who have sex before marriage, or who are adulterers?
Do you publicly name these people on your blogs and condemn them, just as you do homosexual soldiers?

If not, why not?

Your condemnation of all Islamic people is just as bad as anyone who condemns all Christians. You are no better than them.

Bernard can I ask you this? The battles the ADF were involved in with Afghanistan, Timor and Iraq, were they considered religious wars? Sorry havent Googled that part yet.

With regards to the ADFs very open, nonchalant attitude to sexual- preference, I was kind of gobbed smacked for a while. Having never heard of such an occurrence in a work place. Approval to lead the contingent in the Mardi Gras? Is this for real? The rest of the policies acts and behaviors , just not getting it.

My views are not based on anything religious, anything to do with homophobia. Just shocked to know this is our Australian Defense Force

suseonline: Your views are archaic and offensive.

Archaic? maybe not, this Homosexual thing is "fashion of the month." It a bit like fashions with young people, today it's in, tomorrow its out. If you're not "with" the flavour of the month you're on the outer.

Offensive? have you ever thought that us straight people, the majority of Australians, might be offended by homosexuals. I'm certainly offended by homosexuality. Everybody I know is offended & sick of having it shoved down our throats. I'm offended by the use of the word "Gay" for homosexuality.

By saying that homosexual people are offended by people that don't accept them, you are assuming that they are the majority. They are not. If you take poll at the Gay Mardi Gras or in Gay Bars of course you'll get a high score. Let's have a compulsory National Poll & see how that goes.

No? I wonder why?

cohenite. the author says.

Well written and accurate. This is how the majority define their being. Was this the offending comment by Bernard Gaynor?

Catholics have been sent to war for over a century. And believe turning to war is the last resort. They refer to 'Jus in Bello' justice in war. Which include four conditions...

Men and women join the army to become soldiers and serve their country.
Their active duties may vary only slightly, but basically they are all soldiers. Gender is obviously apparent, but anything to do with individual sexual preference is personal, and should remain that way. As for religious beliefs, this is also personal and your choice to share or not.

"The battles the ADF were involved in with Afghanistan, Timor and Iraq, were they considered religious wars? Sorry havent Googled that part yet."

Don't bother, try thinking; the author of this article correctly describes Islam as a political force and Australia is a secular society. How could it be a religious conflict? It would be a better comparison to compare it to some conflict between the West and a totalitarian regime such as communism or Nazism.

I don't want to make any thing of the fact that the author is a devout catholic; he lives in a secular democracy and presumably doesn't want the Vatican to take over the running of the place.

This is to be compared with Islam which has made no bones about wanting to introduce sharia.

Instead of having that conversation we are bogged down with this spurious garbage about whether this Colonel McGregor should go the men's room or not. Which answers my previous enquiry about whether the McGregor issue interferes operationally.

Of course it does.

The irony is if Islam took over the McGregors of the world would not be worried about what ensemble best went with their dress uniform. Islam is so tolerant of transgenders and the other weird and wonderful life-forms which proliferate in the Western system and which all seem so dissatisfied which the latitudes they are provided in The West. A death-wish comes in many forms.

Suse,

The depth of your knowledge continues to astound me,

"If, as you stated, you are such a strict Catholic, then why would you join the army?
Thou shalt not kill is a strong commandment I would have thought."

It was Catholics who fought the vast majority of battles/wars in Europe for a thousand plus years before the Reformation, they comprised both sides.

Catholics have been prominent in our Armed Forces since Colonial times.

Australian War Memorial Collection:

"A portrait of the Roman Catholic Archbishop of Melbourne, his Grace Dr Daniel Mannix. This photograph is a portion of P01383.017, a framed composite photograph (photo-montage) presented to Lieutenant John Hamilton VC by Dr Mannix on the occasion of the Saint Patrick's Day celebrations in Melbourne, 17 March 1920. The composite photograph comprises portraits of fourteen Victoria Cross winners (ten Roman Catholics and four Protestants, all presumably with Irish backgrounds) with portraits of Dr Mannix and the entrepreneur John Wren in the centre. It was probably financed by John Wren."
http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/P01383.001

The silent, no-weapon-required invaders from the rickety boats must be just so pleased to read how the ADF carries on. It makes things just so much easier for them.

The ADF joined the pride in diversity employer programme 'to make the workplace more responsive to the needs of lesbians, gay, bisexual and transgender'. It makes them sound like they are disabled with special needs.

They arent their sexuality, they are people employed to fill a position and do a job. With the same goals and aspirations as the person next to
them. Sex has nothing to bloody do with their job.

When our gay friends come over they seem like normal functioning people to us, always have.

Suazie & others,
It was Catholic soldiers at the gates of Vienna that beat back the Islamic army.

Now a days they are well past Vienna, they have almost taken over
France and Holland and the UK are next in line.
Has no one else heard of the fifth column ?

In response to Mr Gaynor - you know as well as I do that you are being discharged under administrative law as a reflection of your unsuitability as an officer in the Army. The fact that you are a reserve member and escaped the application of military law is irrelevant in the end.
I have not, and will not, express an opinion about DEFGLIS. Command authorised their presence at the parade therefore it was lawful. Command did not authorise you belittling a number of senior officers, or making broad generalised derogatory comments about other religious groups.
As for your comment that I do not know policy, although I can quite clearly see from your own website that you do not believe a woman should be in the military - your condescension towards me is not appreciated as you have no idea what I do and do not know.

To those commenting on the fact that the ADF has been overrun by a homosexual lobby, religious groups, doesn't know what it is doing etc - whilst your opinions are yours and therefore valid to you - you do not speak for the ADF or the vast majority of members so do not represent yourself as doing so.

Those that have served should hold that as an honour because quite simply it is, do not however use it to prop up your biased, and discriminatory, comments against other current and ex-serving members. If you do not think you are, ask yourself this: do you know which of those who have given their service and loyalty for this country are straight, homosexual, or even transgendered? You are insulting their service and in some cases their lives by your insults.

I thank all of those that have committed any part of their life in defence of this country and that is regardless of race, gender, sexuality, or religious belief.

Is Mise, my point was not that Catnolics have never been involved in wars, because obviously they have and are now.

My point was that if you state that the reason you are against other religions, or homosexuals, or women in the ADF is because you are a staunch Catholic, then surely you should also be taking on all the other traits of a staunch Catholic....namely that thou shalt not kill?
Otherwise you can't call yourself a staunch Catholic...

Good on you Marie.
Obviously this Bernard is in the wrong, or he wouldn't have been sacked from the ADF.

A timely reminder to bigoted, racist, misogynistic people.
You have no place in modern Australian society....whether you like it or not.
Drag yourselves into the 21st century or stay behind....your choice..

Suse says:

"A timely reminder to bigoted, racist, misogynistic people.
You have no place in modern Australian society....whether you like it or not.
Drag yourselves into the 21st century or stay behind....your choice.."

And is referring to Islam? Of course not! It beggars belief that the feministas and other lefties can rant and rave about the emasculated, former patriarchal sections our society like the Catholic church and misogynist Abbott, but say nothing about the infinitely worse Islam.

They don't attack Islam because they are COWARDS, because Islam will bite back!

And because the left and progressives have taken over our institutions including the military that is why Islam will win.

How stupid the left are, to oppose and weaken their own society on the basis of past oppression and be prepared to hand it over to Islam so worse oppression can occur.

For over 300 years, the British Army suffered a series of catastrophic defeats, sometimes at the hands of enemies who were not only inferior in numbers, but inferior in arms, supplies, and the technology of civilisation. The only reason for these defeats was because the British governments considered that the political reliability of it's senior army commanders to be much more important than that of their sound military thinking.

For over 300 years, with only a few exceptions, (Wolfe, Wellington, Marlborough), the British army's leading generals were all self serving blithering idiots who knew only how to suck up to their political masters. The list of military catastrophe's by well connected sycophants became long and dismal. Afghanistan under Elphinstone, Cardigan in the Crimea, South Africa under Buller, Iraq under Townshend, Chetwolde at Gaza (who "snatched defeat from the jaws of victory", and Percival at Singapore.

The sacking of successful military commanders who fell foul of political correctness occurred in all armies, and such brilliant tacticians as Fuller, Percy Hobart, Guderian, and Billy Mitchell were all shoved out of the way when they told the politicians what the politicians did not want to know.

The western world now thinks that the military opinions of homosexuals, transgenders, feminists, social crusaders and the politically correct are far more important than those of the professional military men who know what they are doing. Rapid promotion now seems to exist in the Australian Armed Forces to those who seem to know what the influential academic caste wants. The next time we end up in a real war, we just might pay the price for that stupidity

I figured out why you are so rabid, Marie79. It's the colours of your rainbow that are blinding you.

Marie79: you do not speak for the ADF or the vast majority of members so do not represent yourself as doing so.

Actually, the vast majority of Soldiers are against homosexuals being in the Army. They have been restricted from saying so by the homosexuals in the Officer Corps making the rules. They have to follow Orders, or they will be discharged, as was Bernard. No choice, no freedom of speech in the Ranks.

Marie79 & Suseonline you don't happen to be high ranking officers in the ingnorant treason battalion by any chance ?

Suse,

You continue to astound me:

"....taking on all the other traits of a staunch Catholic....namely that thou shalt not kill?
Otherwise you can't call yourself a staunch Catholic..."

The Catholic Church, both Roman and Eastern, says nowhere that killing is wrong when done in self defence and this, of course, includes soldiers in battle.
The Catholic Swiss Guards in the Vatican are not only armed with the most modern small arms but they are highly trained soldiers and when on guard are armed and ready to kill if necessary.

See: https://www.google.com.au/search?q=swiss+guard+weapons&tbm=isch&imgil=po2T35TJSOHoeM%253A%253Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fencrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com%252Fimages%253Fq%253Dtbn%253AANd9GcQhQyXuaH5nFwhtcNL0TBliqqbMHUDbPSTx_PujHhJwxHQKr6husA%253B600%253B250%253BdpkS2ewwKNWhpM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.imfdb.org%25252Fwiki%25252FAngels_%2525252526_Demons&source=iu&usg=__cDhW-dlKQ-i9AI5liBdvSNXIE64%3D&sa=X&ei=SJztUuzFE6npiAempoDIAQ&sqi=2&ved=0CEQQ9QEwBA&biw=1024&bih=653#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=Y6Z0qk_feRcgxM%253A%3Bf4dVYOQpMIj_RM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fmaryvictrix.wordpress.com%252Ffiles%252F2008%252F06%252Fswiss-guard-gun.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fmaryvictrix.com%252F2008%252F06%252F11%252Fpackn-heat%252F%3B360%3B425

The link above seems to have been more than the system can handle; copy and paste and it works.

I think I will pass on checking that link Is Mise.

JayB, how can you say that Marie can't speak for all the ADF personnel
(despite working in the army) but then you go on to say "Actually, the vast majority of Soldiers are against homosexuals being in the Army. "
Really? Are you in the army then?
How would you know?

I wouldn't mind betting that gay people have been part of the army for a long time, and no one else even knew. They just did their job like anyone else.

Bernard was sacked from the army because he broke the rules.
It doesn't matter who his commanding officers or fellow soldiers slept with, or their sexual orientation, the fact remains that Bernard was wrong.

It amuses me that posters like Cohenite degenerate into rants about others being 'feministas' or 'lefties' if they don't agree with his views.
Why is that?

For the record Cohenite, I didn't vote for Labor or the Greens....
And yes, I believe women are equal to men and should have the same rights.

LEGO: the British governments considered that the political reliability of it's senior army commanders to be much more important than that of their sound military thinking.

Interesting book to read, LEGO, "Military Blunders" by Geoffrey Regan. ISBN: 0-233-99977-9.

Did you know that we could have won the Gallipoli Campaign but for a couple of very Senior Officers with connections. Stopford, Hammersley, Mahon & Stilwell. All involved in their own Rank & comfort first. The German Commanding Officer said that the Campaign could have been won by the British on that first day.

It's not the men that lose battles but the upper Officer echelon.

When Vietnam ended they kicked out the experienced war hardened Veterans & keep those that toe the line & only work within the guidelines of the Pham's. The kept a few, like Warrie George just to gee the young officers up. Petersen was persuaded to resign. Oh Petersen & one other (Yank) were the model for the Mad Colonel in "Appocalypse Now. Petersen was my first CO. & Warrie George had Command of Jezzine Bks. when I was in the Army. George is having a Book launch on Friday on Bribie Island. unfortunately he won't be there, medical.

I expect the same when the men return from Afghanistan. The Officer Ranks will get filled by Gays, Greenies, Lawyers & the Politically Correct, as is happening now.

Our Army is Doomed.

And yes, I believe women are equal to men and should have the same rights.
Suseonline,
Then why not act accordingly ??

Individual, how do you know how I act?
You only know what words I write on this forum.
What a bizarre comment.

Bernard was rightly sacked from the ADF, and you all need to get over that fact.
I want soldiers in our ADF who are willing to accept and fight for ALL Australians, and not just those with mainstream religious views, gender issues, or mainstream sexual preferences.

I consider soldiers who are accepting of all differences in our society as being real heroes.
Anyone else does not belong in our ADF.

"For the record Cohenite, I didn't vote for Labor or the Greens...."

I don't believe that.

On every issue, AGW, Muslims and the boat people you take a left line.

And you have not addressed my point. The feministas NEVER complain about Islam, NEVER. What hypocrisy and as I say cowardice.

Answer that Suse.

Suseonline: JayB, how can you say that Marie can't speak for all the ADF personnel

No. She seems to be speaking fr them to me.

Suseonline: Really? Are you in the army then? How would you know?

As ex Army, you would be surprised how much contact old soldiers keep in touch with their past Units & the MEM in them. Reunions with fellow veterans & the young ones coming on both at local towns & in Units. E.g. Unit Birthdays, Remembrance days, like Coral Day, etc. Talking of old Units. I even keep contact with the 173d Airborne. That's how I know.

Suseonline: I wouldn't mind betting that gay people have been part of the army for a long time, and no one else even knew. They just did their job like anyone else.

Yes, but mostly it was in the Officer Corps.

Suseonline: Bernard was sacked from the army because he broke the rules.

Then how come these others weren't sacked as well. OH! the Gays, Greens, Lawyers & Politically Correct are writing all the Rules nowadays. That's why. The "SYSTEM" at work.

Suseonline: It doesn't matter who his commanding officers or fellow soldiers slept with, or their sexual orientation,

Yes it does. See the "Mil Law Manual."

Suseonline: the fact remains that Bernard was wrong.

Only to the Gay, Greenies, Lawyers & Politically Correct. To the rest of us he was right.

How many know who Warrie George & Petersen are, for interest sake?

Suseonline,
What a bizarre reply !

Cohenite, I know many Liberal voters who are not homophobic or racist, so your protests about what you are so sure I do or don't believe are rubbish.
Obviously you don't know many people.

JayB, obviously you didn't like officers from your army days, what with suggesting homosexuals were only present amongst their ranks...lol!
It is clear you didn't really know the sexual orientation of all those people in the rank and file ADF.

Bernard was rightly sacked, and it doesn't matter what the sexual orientation, religious orientation or any other preferences of all the other army personnel were, he was wrong.
I think I have made myself perfectly clear here, and have said all I want to say on this subject. See you all on another thread.
Cheers,
Suse.

You only know what words I write on this forum.
Suseonline,
That's more than adequate to form a 99% correct opinion of your mentality.

suseonline marie79 extremists?
Continuing to bang my head against a brick wall, the comments of all the other posters on this subject are reasonable and correct.Your accusations of 'bigots, racists, misogynists etc are so inaccurate.

Bernard Gaynors description of the extremists they were at war with is correct, not racism. Bigots? A bit of fear and distrust is justified. Misogynists? Dont recall that being raised as an issue.

'Do you even know if those who serve in the military past or present were gay, homosexual bisexual, transgender? Point being? Men and women who are or were serving, doing the job they were employed to do and admirably so.

Please... where in any occupation is sexual orientation or preference included on a job application? Nowhere because it is irrelevant.
Just for example: 'Making a workplace more responsive to the needs of lesbians, gays, bisexuals and transgender'? Surely they can meet their own needs on their own time same as anyone else. The workplace is just that!

suseonline. 'Jayb, are you in the army then' oh dear. This gent was the first to respond to Bernard Gaynors post.
Many things can be learnt from those who speak from experience. My dad was in the SAS, he passed down many hard learnt values to me. And no doubt he served alongside 'gay people and didnt even know, soldiers doing their job like everyone else' (unbeknown to you suseonline the most realistic thing you have said so far)
But then' it doesnt matter who his commanding officers slept with or their sexual orientation.' bye suseonline
'Here's to equality and equal rights' not getting out of hand and stupidly overboard.

JayB, please show where I have made any suggestion that I speak for any other person other than myself. I did not do so, and will not do so, as that would be unfair to other members. I simply ask the same respect from yourself and Mr Gaynor to not speak on my behalf.

Jodelie, please show where I have called anyone a name (whether that be extremest, bigot etc).
You have stated that it doesn't matter what gender, religion or sexuality someone is they should just do their job. Excellent ideal, and I sincerely hope we get to a point where that is the case. However it is quite obvious from the comments from individuals like Mr Gaynor, JayB, Individual, cohenite, and others commenting on Mr Gaynor's website that they have no tolerance to other religions, sexualities, or for that matter women, being members of the ADF.
I commend your father's service, however that does not give you an insight into how hard it is for others to 'just do their job' against the prejudices that do unfortunately still exist.

jodelle: And no doubt he served alongside 'gay people and didn't even know.

I suppose he & I both did. But they were MEN, they did, & could do their job as MEN. Not F's, P's or the Giggle Girly ones that want to join nowadays & go CAMPING. There is a BIG difference. This latest lot of limp wrists could not even do what the female soldiers do. They do nothing but complain about how had done by they are if they get a knock back.

Do I hate Officers. Well no, I actually don't hate anybody. I have preferred people I'd invite home & others I wouldn't have walk down my street, as do you. Or maybe you would.

I have know some brilliant Officers. My Platoon Commander in Vietnam for one & My Company Commander. I'd eat sh!t if he said I should. Others Like a former CO. He was only interested in entertaining any Big Wig he could get in the Mess & wanted nothing to do with the men in his Battalion. They were beneath his Social Class. Another who was responsible for the Minefield fiasco. Another was the son of a Major General, every time his Platoon went outside the wire they took his Weapon, Map & Compass off him. Another, the 2 I/C was stood up in front of the Company, in the field, by my OC & dressed down on Operations. At least, he, revised his ways & became the Top Bloke (in QLD) I am very proud to know & we still call him Bucket ar$e.

What is it that makes people think just because someone attained some rank it makes that someone somehow a more competent, repectable, sensible, better person ? I know people with very high degrees & rank who I would not let make a dcision as to what they'd like in their sandwich let alone lead others. It is no secret how many hingh ranking get to where they are. Not much of it involved competence or integrity or even wisdom. No siree, rank in that case is merely something one can smell.

Jayb. Like your words and knowledge :)

Religion is a personal thing inherited or chosen by an individual.Now people are defining themselves by their faith. Resulting in fights in communities, within countries and between countries.
If 'the others' as someone referred to decide to define themselves by their sexual orientation and not by the person they are, there will be conflict.
Human rights for a start.
The program to 'make the workplace more responsive to the needs of lesbian, gay. bi and transgender'. Unless we are all going to start bonking in the work place, its looking pretty biased and sexist to me.

Being in the Armed Forces isn't like your average day job & the local 7/11 or Office. I think this is where a lot of people get a bit mixed up. If you work in a little store or office it is reasonable that you will get treated & spoken to in a, now Politically Correct, fashion. I suppose if you are in the Military && have a Desk job in Canberra the same scenario applies. But what of the worker, The Soldier, Sailor & Airman at the front line.

There is no time for Political Correctness when Their life is on the line. You can't stop & ask the person shooting at you to, "Please don't do that it's not acceptable behaviour." This is what some people think should happen, apparently.

Scenario: A Platoon of soldiers walk into a village & get ambushed. They are surrounded on all side & are taking heavy fire. A Scouts send back that there is a machine gun pinning the lead section & is firing from a window 25 meters in front of them. There are at least 3 baddies in the room & from local knowledge they usually have some family with them.

The Section can't move anywhere or they will get killed. The Platoon has 2 badly wounded men. Another Sections can get to the house where the fire is coming from but they realize that there may be a woman & child in the room. If they don't attack the room then the pinned Section will all be killed, 9 men. If they do attack the woman & child may get hurt.

The remaining section with the Pl Commander, Platoon Sergeant, Sig, 2 Wounded & a Section for protection. They too are taking fire from all directions. If they can clear the Machine Gun Pinning them down they will be able to get some protection.

You have only minutes to act. The 2 wounded men will die if you don't get to cover or you are all going to be killed.

Now, What do you do.

Get the Sig to radio Base & ask to speak to a Lawyer & ask permission to attack?
They resign them selves to all being killed because it would be unacceptable to hurt a woman & child?
Or, Take out the Machine Gun, trying not to hurt the woman & child that may or may not be in the room.

Quick, Quick, make a decision, Quick.

I should have added.

Would you want a Giggly Girly type Gay/Greenie/Politically Correct Platoon Commander to make that decision for you, as a Soldier in that Platoon?

OK, Jayb,

Rocket launcher---BOOM.

OK......

What about the woman & child. If they are killed some Lawyer/Greenie/Politically Correct Junky will want them charged with murder.

By the way this could be France 1944. Not necessarily the ME.

Excreta occurs!

I concur Mise, but the way things are now the "Code of Conduct" for Warfare that was Drilled into us is useless. Once there was an enemy belonging to an Army with a Uniform. Now the enemy belongs to one of many fanatical factions. They are ALL civilians. If you deliberately kill a civilian then you have contravened the "Code of Conduct" & can be called a War Criminal. They are using the Law against us & we can't do anything about it. That what the Greenies,Politically Correct Do Gooders & Lawyers jump on.

"That what the Greenies,Politically Correct Do Gooders & Lawyers jump on."

and what they did.

Sarah Hanson-Young's tears count more than does the commitment of our Armed Forces.