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The Forum > Article Comments > Truth is the first victim of war > Comments

Truth is the first victim of war : Comments

By Bruce Haigh, published 28/1/2014

The Prime Minister, Tony Abbott and the Minister for Immigration, Scott Morrison, have taken Australia down a path from which there are only two outcomes, further aggression and confrontation with Indonesia or retreat.

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Indonesia is having an election shortly. Thus all the chest beating from them. Far from wrecking our relationship with the Indos, Mr Abbot et al are firmly cementing our place in the southern hemisphere.
Why do so many commentators get so antsy about our incursions into Indonesian waters but don't give a toss about Indonesian incursions in to our own? Don't we have a right to enforce our own soverignty?

If the writer is so concerned about inflaming our neighbours, why suggest that Wee Willy Shorten and Ms Pliber..whatever visit? Surely that would be asking for trouble.
Posted by Sparkyq, Tuesday, 28 January 2014 9:58:31 AM
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Haig: Retreat would amount to a domestic political defeat for Abbott and Morrison but lead to an improvement in relations Indonesia.

Would it. Bruce Haig obviously knows nothing about negotiating with our Asian neighbours. Haggling & bargaining for the best price is their stock & trade. In Asia there are 3 prices, Local, (cheap), foreigners living there, (bit better price than cheap) & Tourist price (dear). If you don't haggle when you buy something the local people have NO respect for you at all. So it is with our negotiations with Indonesia. Would a retreat improve relations.? NO.

Haig: Further aggression would continue to undermine the relationship with Indonesia and might spread into the region.

No it wouldn't. It would improve relations.

Haig: The diplomatic subtleties and nuances required to maintain and build that relationship have been sacrificed to his flawed domestic agenda of turning back the boats.

Flawed domestic agenda? Shows an obvious Green/ALP Bias.

Haig: The Indonesians are right to question the honesty of Morrison’s response to claims that Australian naval vessels breached their maritime boundary.

Up until the recent kerfuffle over the ALP's spying, Indonesia has said nothing about regular incursions. In fact the Navy had Indonesia blessing. All part of haggling process.

Haig: The aggression behind his defence gave an impression that he might have issued the orders.

BS.
cont.
Posted by Jayb, Tuesday, 28 January 2014 10:14:46 AM
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Cont.

Haig: It is his head that pops up in the media to defend the less salubrious aspects of the illegal operation being run against asylum seekers, when they become public knowledge in Australia from Indonesian sources.
Illegal Operations? Please explain. If you mean burning the hand of unauthorized entrants then you have presumed our sailors are guilty. not very Australian. Still something I would expect of a Green.

Haigh: Campbell appears to have been put in the position to give Defence Force legitimacy to a crass political undertaking.

Yes, unfortunately that is possibly so, but not in the way you have intimated. I remember when Politicians visited our Unit in the Army, certain select personnel were given specific questions to ask. No one else was even allowed to talk to the Minister. This was to stop embarrassing questions being asked by lowly Privates.

Haig: Morrison sought, in the crudest of terms, to demonise asylum seekers.

No, not Asylum Seekers. People who wish to enter the country by means other than the recognizes means.

Haigh: It is not as if the Navy and the ADF have a perfect record, etc.

An attempt to justify your position. I supprised that you didn't bring up how the Navy used to Keel haul sailors once.

Haigh: He (Abbott) has also said that he would accept the word of an Australian sailor over that of a person who sought to enter Australia illegally (he was referring to asylum seekers).

As would anyone in their right mind. These people would say anything. Possibly even coached by People Smugglers & Green/Islamic sympathizers.

Cont.
Posted by Jayb, Tuesday, 28 January 2014 10:15:32 AM
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Hey Bruce

Still peddling the anti liberal line as usual.

Why can't your assessments include truth.

The indos refused to help any Australian Govt stop the boats.
We changed our govt to regain sovergnity of our borders.
The indos object to the new policy.
The indos refuse to help stop the boats.

The indos become enraged over phone tapping, by the Rudd govt. Btw You wrote nothng to defend the liberals then even tho.ugh it was warranted.
The indos withdraw from cooperating on border protection and proclaim Aust govt wkn't be able to stop the boats.

The Australian govt turn boats around and they stop arriving in Australia despite the Indonesians bleating.
The Australian Govt makes the Indos appear impotent.
The Australian navy intrude into indo waters.
The indos go into another frenzy of impotence and say they will send their boats to stop our boats from returning their boats.

The indos look really silly and retailate by supporting ratbags claims our navy personnel hurt them.

Laughable that you put so much emphasis on thee fool indos and idiot asylum liars
Posted by imajulianutter, Tuesday, 28 January 2014 10:15:49 AM
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cont.

Indonesia would genuinely welcome good relations with Australia,

Yes they would if we negotiated only on their terms. E.g., More Aid, take more Supposed refugees of their hands, more Bribes to their Politicians. On the other hand if we bargain & haggle in the manner they are used to doing business then they will have respect for Australia. At present we are considered as fool Tourists, paying the higher price.

They might begin by addressing the issue of the joint processing of refugees.

Australia's position is that these people must be handled by the Indonesians. I presume they had papers when they arrived in Indonesia. If they didn't then Indonesia must return then from whence they came. If they did have papers, where did their papers go if they claim they don't have any? Destroying their papers is a criminal act. Purposely placing themselves, wives & children in Harm's way is a criminal act. Are they really refugees. Not according to the UNCHR Convention & Protocol. See Article 31 (1) Note; Coming directly. (Interpretation.; crossing from a place of danger to the first country of safe refuge.) Crossing multiple Boarders to find the best deal makes them Economic Refugees. Economic refugees are not covered by this Convention.

I must say that this article is Green/ALP Biased to the extreme & not really worth wiping..., well you know what I mean. I hold no affiliation with any Party in any manner what-so-ever.
Posted by Jayb, Tuesday, 28 January 2014 10:16:12 AM
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there is no justification for torture under any circumstances whatsoever, full stop, and if anyone believes there is, he/she should examine their conscience seriously.
Posted by SHRODE, Tuesday, 28 January 2014 10:41:32 AM
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If this bloke is an example of the people in our diplomatic service, no wonder we fail in all things diplomatic.

This bit of anti Oz fluff is not worthy of publication.
Posted by Hasbeen, Tuesday, 28 January 2014 10:46:33 AM
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It’s no surprise that Bruce Haigh blames Abbott and Morrison (no friends of mine) for anything and everything that has and could happened between Australia and Indonesia, even when the blame lies squarely with Indonesia, whose government has become even more stupid in the build up to elections.

The latest nonsense is about Indonesia’s sovereignty. So, out come the warships – many of them donated by us, or bought with our money – to protect their sovereignty from big, bad Australia. Ships that they said that they DIDN’T HAVE to help overcome people smuggling!

Wonder if there is anyone like Bruce in Indonesia saying “we should not upset Australia because we will not be able to continue bludging off them as we do now”.

Bruce also makes the mistake that Abbott is a “conservative intellectual”; he is neither, and we have had a gut full of intellectuals any way. As for lacking “thoughtful consideration”, we all know that anyone who disagrees with Bruce will never be accused of that! The Left thinks that questioning peoples’ intellect will encourage them not to argue with the likes of Bruce, who are oh so clever.

It is understandable that the Labor and the Left in general are highly annoyed by the loss of a 24 hour news cycle about illegal boar arrivals. But, the rest of us just want the boats stopped, as Abbott promised, and we don’t care how they do it. Added to the Left outrage, even through the ‘silence’, the turn back and discouragement of boats seems to be working. That must really hurt!

Back to Indonesia. Why is it right for them to question Morrison’s honesty of an alleged incursion into their waters? Morrison is a liar; the Indonesians are honest? Yeah, what about the warships that suddenly popped up!

It’s well past the time Australia started to rattle a few sabres of its own against Indonesia; they are selfish leeches, and no aid whatsoever should be given to them. Illegals are coming here with their help and knowledge. We have nothing to lose.
Posted by NeverTrustPoliticians, Tuesday, 28 January 2014 10:48:44 AM
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"there are only two outcomes, further aggression and confrontation with Indonesia or retreat". Or, more likely, harmonious relationships with Indonesia and a cessation of illegal boarder incursions.

"The diplomatic subtleties and nuances required to maintain and build that relationship have been sacrificed" by the wholly unprofessional and arguably treasonable actions of amateurish and subjective ABC reporting.

"Morrison has proven a willing attack dog. His anger and downright nastiness were on public display on ABC TV, on 22 January, in his defence of Australian Navy personnel alleged to have burnt the hands of asylum seekers.". An anger wholly justified by the Armature hearsay broadcast by rank partisanship. No, it wasn't an Iranian woman with twins, it was a Rohingan Asian woman with a single child... Public correction? Apology for misinformation Where?

"The Indonesians are right to question the honesty of Morrison’s response to claims that Australian naval vessels breached their maritime boundary." The Indonesians would not have known about it unless Morrison and the navy had not told them duh! But it is ok for the navy to go within a couple of kilometres of their coast to rescue Indonesian sailors in distress??

"the less salubrious aspects of the illegal operation being run against asylum seekers". Shouldn't that read 'legal and government sanctioned actions taken to stop illegal foreign incursions into Australian sovereign territory?

Bruce, I could go on and on at each and every predictable point you make in this 'crass' political diatribe, a diatribe loaded with emotive, predictable distortions and the hypocritical moral superiority to be expected from the left. Sooo boring mate, get over it
Posted by Prompete, Tuesday, 28 January 2014 11:32:12 AM
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'His anger and downright nastiness were on public display on ABC TV, on 22 January, in his defence of Australian Navy personnel alleged to have burnt the hands of asylum seekers. '

I would suggest you look at your own nastiness Bruce. Were you not one of the huge number on the left and particularly ABC who have egg all over their face and now are so desperate that they will believe any lie to demonise good men. The lack of drownings seems of no concern to you Bruce. Its amazing.
Posted by runner, Tuesday, 28 January 2014 11:35:13 AM
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@ NeverTrustPoliticians, Tuesday, 28 January 2014 10:48:44 AM

Well said. Spot on.
Posted by onthebeach, Tuesday, 28 January 2014 11:44:48 AM
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@ Shrode:

How can you examine something which doesn't exist?
Posted by JohnBennetts, Tuesday, 28 January 2014 12:37:40 PM
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Bruce, we have ample material demonstrating the lack of comprehension of the green/left of the Indonesian situation.

We know that you are upset by the success of Abbott and his government, but emphasis of your ignorance with this type of outburst is time-wasting and boring.

If there is an area in which you have any expertise, please devote your efforts to that, and avoid topics of which you completely lack understanding
Posted by Leo Lane, Tuesday, 28 January 2014 2:22:38 PM
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Bruce, you've always been a child of the left. Before Vietnam, I was involved in the 'Confrontation' (1964/65), and the one thing the Indonesian soldier respects, is an enemy that stands up to them ! Examine some of the cross border operations, in Borneo ?

It's also true, they never like to 'lose face'. And; they even have less respect, when they see an enemy lose face ! Bruce, your 'left leaning' politics are of course, your own business. Nevertheless what you've stated herein is just patent nonsense.
Posted by o sung wu, Tuesday, 28 January 2014 2:30:56 PM
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Bruce,

" there are only two outcomes, further aggression and confrontation with Indonesia or retreat"

Bollocks.

All the left whingers are now having to face the reality that having said for years that it would be impossible to turn the boats back, Abbott has done just that, and while Indonesia might huff and puff a little, it has no legal basis to do anything about it in international waters.

Bruce, just suck it up.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Tuesday, 28 January 2014 3:23:40 PM
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"The Leader of the Opposition, Bill Shorten, needs to place distance between himself and Abbott. Together with the Opposition Spokesperson on Foreign Affairs, Tanya Plibersek, he should visit Indonesia and seek to repair the damage being wrought by Morrison and Abbott. They might begin by addressing the issue of the joint processing of refugees."

They should begin by explaining why the Indonesian President and his wife were being spied on under the orders of the Rudd-Gillard governments.
Posted by Raycom, Tuesday, 28 January 2014 4:45:23 PM
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What I want to know is why are the Indonesian authorities so willing to break Australian sovereignty by allowing refugee boats into our territorial waters?

Are Indonesian authorities being bribed by the people smugglers?

When people smugglers charge each asylum seeker $5,000 per person - adding up to (say) 100 x $5,000 = $500,000 for one boatload - how much of this money finds its way to the Indonesian Navy and Indonesian Borders & Customs?

I'm sure in Indonesia, with low wages and high known rates of corruption, Indonesian Government people would not let people smugglers keep all of the money.
Posted by plantagenet, Tuesday, 28 January 2014 4:50:41 PM
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Plantagenate: I'm sure in Indonesia, with low wages and high known rates of corruption, Indonesian Government people would not let people smugglers keep all of the money.

Glad to see someone's awake up to what's going on.

Raycon: Bruce, just suck it up.

the Haigs , Costellos & notable others never reply to any of their Posts. No guts. They just duck & run. These are the people that get Australia Day Awards because they are so wonderful. Crap.
Posted by Jayb, Tuesday, 28 January 2014 5:35:12 PM
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War does not determine who is right - only who is left. - Bertrand Russel
Posted by simon12, Tuesday, 28 January 2014 6:45:37 PM
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The news today:

"THE Indonesian navy has added three small warships to its southern patrols, with Jakarta declaring they are there to intercept people-smuggling boats, not to deter Australian incursions."

So the Indonesians have decided to co operate, so Bruce's predictions are 100% rubbish.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Wednesday, 29 January 2014 4:50:20 AM
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Shadow Minister

Indonesia already operates around 60 patrol boats (some donated by Australia) which often haven't been doing their job of intercepting people smuggler boats.

see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Current_Indonesian_Navy_ships#Patrol_Craft.5B25.5D.5B26.5D

Instead its known that Indonesian patrol boats extort money from people smuggler boats in what is a type of protection racket, piracy or aiding and abetting.

Planta
Posted by plantagenet, Wednesday, 29 January 2014 10:27:29 AM
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Plant: Instead its known that Indonesian patrol boats extort money from people smuggler boats in what is a type of protection racket, piracy or aiding and abetting.

I remember some boat people complaining about this a few years ago. In fact the Vietnamese comedian (name slips me, Ahn Ho?) was talking about it to Tony Robinson last night. Not only off Java but Malaysia/Singapore & Thailand, Cambodia & Borneo. So the Aussie Navy will have to monitor the Indo Navy. Sigh... more spying.
Posted by Jayb, Wednesday, 29 January 2014 10:49:44 AM
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Hi Jayb

Check out page 8 of this academic paper http://www.murdoch.edu.au/Research-capabilities/Asia-Research-Centre/_document/working-papers/wp141.pdf :

"...as a 2006 Human Rights Watch report states:

"The Indonesian military draws on off-budget (extra-budgetary and unaccountable) funds derived from military-owned enterprises, informal alliances with private entrepreneurs to whom the military often provides services, mafia-like criminal activity, and corruption."

Indeed, members of the Indonesian military/navy are believed to have been involved in criminal activities at sea such as pirate attacks. Military, navy and police officers are also known to accept bribes or ‘taxes’ from criminals, crime victims or businesses operating
within Indonesia and its waters."

Planta
Posted by plantagenet, Wednesday, 29 January 2014 2:02:15 PM
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LOL, all these emotional imbalance in the part of Australians is so silly. We Indonesians do not care whether these 'asylum seekers' exist or not. If you look into Indonesian press, there is around zero coverage over the "people-smuggling" issue. In fact, the average Indonesians would know nothing (nor would he/she be interested) on the "people smuggling" issue.

As such, we can infer two things from the Indonesians:
1) Indonesia does not care about asylum seeker issue, hence no-one in Indonesia is making "electioneering" over asylum-seeker issue which nobody in Indonesia is even aware of.
2) Given the recent incursions of Australian naval vessels, Indonesia rightly deploys some of its naval assets to ensure no further incursions by Australian navy.
3) Indonesians are fully aware that the only electioneering of the asylum seeker is obviously in Australia, where the Liberal Party is taking advantage of the racist xenophobic redneck mentality to win votes and whip the Oz population into a frenzy over supposed 'invasion of Muslims'.
Posted by Proud to be Indonesian, Sunday, 2 February 2014 2:28:37 PM
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Hi Proud to be Indonesian

I believe you when you say " Indonesians do not care whether these 'asylum seekers' exist or not."

Indonesia's military, police and customs official don't object to most asylum seekers who land at airports in Java because Indonesia's military, police and customs official financially benefit from the $5,000 to $12,000 each asylumn seeker pays to people smugglers.

People smugglers make sure Indonesians in high places have good financial reasons to tolerate the constant bilateral problems with Australia that people smuggling from Indonesia is causing.

With people smuggler boats earning up to 100 x $10,000 = one million dollars there is no way your government officials would let all of the money stay in the hands of people smugglers. Hence your government officials receive "taxation", bribes or other forms of extortion from people smugglers.

I kindly suggest you read page 8 of this academic paper http://www.murdoch.edu.au/Research-capabilities/Asia-Research-Centre/_document/working-papers/wp141.pdf which sets out the circumstances.

Planta
Posted by plantagenet, Sunday, 2 February 2014 3:21:43 PM
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Hi Again Proud to be Indonesian

I forgot to say I hope you as an Indonesian are receiving people smuggler money - or do you have to be in the Indonesia military or a high official to profit?

Kind Regards

Planta
Posted by plantagenet, Sunday, 2 February 2014 3:25:12 PM
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@Plantagenet:

LOL, USD 1 mio is really peanuts considering our GDP is approaching USD 1 trillion. Say, we have 6% annual growth, this means every year Indonesian economy grows by USD 60 billion (which is already 60,000x bigger than the size of the puny "people-smuggling" thingy). Nobody in the higher ranks would bother lid their eye over such trivial amount.

Fact is, "people-smuggling" is so insignificant that it is simply out of mind and out of sight and out of the awareness of most Indonesians. Only Australians got into race-war panic mode over such small amount of defenceless women & children.
Posted by Proud to be Indonesian, Sunday, 2 February 2014 3:49:37 PM
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LOL Proud to be Indonesian

So why does Indonesia continue to harbour so many people smugglers who are international criminals?

LOL

Planta
Posted by plantagenet, Sunday, 2 February 2014 4:03:34 PM
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Well Bruce that back down has occurred.

The Indonesians are now deploying their navy ... from recent reports the deployment is to help stop the boats.

They realise the Liberal Government in Australia is stopping the boats and they now want to be part of the success.

Proud to be ... yes if the Indonesian Government doesn't care, then why would they deploy the navy to help stop the boats?

Is it case of 'loss of face' they dread?
Posted by imajulianutter, Sunday, 2 February 2014 4:53:36 PM
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@Plantegenet:

As you may know, Indonesia already arrested plenty of so-called "people-smugglers" since ages ago, despite "people-smuggling" being not exactly illegal in Indonesia. Australia are really ingrates for insulting Indonesia over those who managed to pass by. Not helping is the dismissive attitude of PM Abbott on spying on SBY wife, which I guess led him to decide not to do what Australia 'asks' since he is personally offended.

You must be naive to expect Indonesia to 'comply' with all of Australia's demands, whims, and periodic racist outbursts like a lady having PMS. I don't think Australia would want to comply to Indonesia's demands either.

@imajulianutter:

D'oh, obviously Indonesia deploys warships due to reports of incursions by Australian navy, ie to protect Indonesia's sovereign borders.
Posted by Proud to be Indonesian, Sunday, 2 February 2014 8:44:56 PM
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PtbI: PM Abbott on spying on SBY wife,

No he didn't. That was the Labor Party about 3 years ago. It was only just revealed when the Government changed so you really can't say it was Abbotts fault like they are trying to make out.

PtbI: D'oh, obviously Indonesia deploys warships due to reports of incursions by Australian navy, ie to protect Indonesia's sovereign borders.

Our Navy been going in & out of Indonesian waters chasing Boat People for years with Indonesia's blessing. It only after the spying thing came out that Indonesia feigned indignation. They actually shot themselves in the foot. Oh... that means that they are forced to do what Australia was doing for them with their blessing & for free. Now they have to bring their own boats out. Boats they said they didn't have. The ones Australia gave them for the job.

They were angling for more AID & the AID got cut which made them even more angry. Stiff doo doo.
Posted by Jayb, Sunday, 2 February 2014 9:40:32 PM
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@Jayb:

"That was the Labor Party about 3 years ago"
LOL, what a childish excuse. WWI & WWII was done when Australia was not under Liberal rule, so using your logic Australia now should not celebrate Anzac Day since it's another political party who did it?

"Our Navy been going in & out of Indonesian waters"
LOL, that's not what your PM Abbott says, ie it never happened before and it will never happen again.

"The ones Australia gave them for the"
LOL, where did you get this info? Our frigates are purchased from Netherlands & UK.

"They were angling for more AID"
LOL, foreign aid only accounts for 0.35% of Indonesian govt budget, while the largest aid contributor is Japan with Australia rather far behind. I don't think any Indonesian govt official will bat his eyelid over this kind of 'threat'. As Sukarno said, you can go to hell with your aid.
Posted by Proud to be Indonesian, Monday, 3 February 2014 12:08:18 AM
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Proud to be ...
Not according to your government officials who are saying the deployment is to help stop the boats.

Try and keep abreast of developments. Tony Abbott has stopped the boats despite not having help from the Indonesian govt.
Posted by imajulianutter, Monday, 3 February 2014 12:47:42 AM
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PtbI: LOL, where did you get this info? Our frigates are purchased from Netherlands & UK.

FOI PtbI.

Indonesia says they don't have boats that are capable of operating in International Waters or capable of rescuing these boats. Here is a list of Patrol Boats that Australia Patrolled with before the current batch doing the Patrolling.
KRI Sibarau. ex HMAS Bandolier.
KRI Siliman. ex HMAS Archer.
KRI Sigabu. ex HMAS Barracade.
KRI Silea. ex HMAS Acute.
KRI Siribua. ex HMAS Bombard.
KRI Sikuda. ex HMAS Attack.
KRI Sigurat. ex HMAS Assail.
KRI Tenggiri. Ex HMAS Ardent.
These Patrol Boats were a gift to Indonesia to patrol for these Asylum Seeker Boats. Why isn't Indonesia using them for patrolling their Coast line for what they were given for?

PtbI: LOL, foreign aid only accounts for 0.35% of Indonesian govt budget, while the largest aid contributor is Japan with Australia rather far behind. I don't think any Indonesian govt official will bat his eyelid over this kind of 'threat'. As Sukarno said, you can go to hell with your aid.

So what you are saying is that Indonesia is a Bludger on the World stage & scunges off everyone. How come Australia was threatened with retaliation, not long ago, when Australia threaten to cut back the AID.
Posted by Jayb, Monday, 3 February 2014 8:54:49 AM
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@Jayb:

"These Patrol Boats were a gift to Indonesia to patrol for these Asylum Seeker Boats"

Hmm, a quick browse through Wikipedia would show that these boats were SOLD to Indonesia way back in 1985 before any of this people smuggling issue.

Currently, we are patrolling with new ships recently purchased from Netherlands and UK.

Could you even make one statement which is factually correct?

"So what you are saying is that Indonesia is a Bludger on the World stage & scunges off everyone. How come Australia was threatened with retaliation, not long ago, when Australia threaten to cut back the AID."

LOL, when did we make threats over aid? In fact, when did Indonesian govt even mentioned "aid". Is this another of your self-flattery imaginations?

As for "bludger" and "scunges", based on Wiktionary it seems you suggest that we somehow rely on aid. LOL, as I mention we derive 99.65% of govt budget from our own resources. Hence, again these trivial amounts of aid does not even deserve mentioning when talking about Indonesia.

Australia received USD 1 mio aid from Indonesia during recent Victorian bushfires. Obviously Australia is a bludger who scunges off everyone.
Posted by Proud to be Indonesian, Monday, 3 February 2014 4:03:57 PM
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Dear LOL Proud to be Indonesian LOL

Surely you meant "sponges off" not "scunges off". see http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080126013122AAQMwUT

If your intention is to abuse Australians at least get your terminology right.

LOL

Planta :)
Posted by plantagenet, Monday, 3 February 2014 4:32:52 PM
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PtbI: these boats were SOLD to Indonesia way back in 1985 before any of this people smuggling issue.

You are right they were sold for a pittance, not for their true value. But where were they when they were supposed to be patrolling South of Java & where were the Frigates? Indonesia said they didn't have any ships to Patrol with. Obviously a big Lie.

Mate, everybody proud of their Country, it's only natural.

What we should be ashamed of is our Politicians. Yours & mine. They all tell lies. In the name of diplomacy. That's what diplomacy is all about. They, (all sides) are especially good at lying to their own people.

Ours are always fighting each other instead of looking after the Australian People.

Yours for being the 4th. most corrupt Nation in the World. You know, as well as just about everybody else, that Kick backs & bribery is an Indonesian Sport & way of life. Everybody from the President down to the local cop is making an extra buck that way.
Posted by Jayb, Monday, 3 February 2014 4:42:19 PM
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As for AID, I am greatly in favour of cutting off AID to every Country except for emergencies like the tsunami. As you say the AID you get from other Countries is a Pittance & you don't really meed it.

There was an Indonesian Politician recently who threatened to stop trading with Australia if we reduced our AID. Was he upset about missing out on the Kick backs? I assume so.

I have been told by Australian Sailors that there was an unofficial arrangement with the Indo Government about patrolling through Indonesian waters, so Indo boats didn't have to come out. This came to an end with the Spying thing.

PtbI: LOL, what a childish excuse. (the Spying thing by the ALP)

You are pulling on a long straw here. Abbot was not responsible for the Spying. It'd be a good bet that he didn't even know about it until it was revealed. Then he had to make excuses for what someone else was responsible for & that's not right. If the bloke down the road stole your bike should you be held responsible. I didn't think so.
Posted by Jayb, Monday, 3 February 2014 4:42:33 PM
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Proud to be

Hey have you heard the latest from your military. The boats they are sending are to assist Australia to stop the boats.

All too late. We have already done that by sending them bsck to you anyway.

Lol you look silly without a face.
Posted by imajulianutter, Thursday, 6 February 2014 5:38:18 PM
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See the latest, PtbI.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/21295639/no-apology-from-abc-over-boat-story/
Posted by Jayb, Thursday, 6 February 2014 6:48:44 PM
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Proud to be Indonesian,

If you are, why?
Posted by Is Mise, Friday, 7 February 2014 2:31:28 PM
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