grateful,

You appear to be in desperate search for some wriggle room.

<<Before responding to your posts can i ask that you be upfront about your sources in regard to the teachings of Islam.>>

You are merely shifting the goal posts here. I have said nothing about Islam per se and nor do I need to. You claimed that your god is omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent - the problem of evil follows from that. Even if you could demonstrate that Islam, the Qur'an and every Muslim were absolutely opposed to slavery, it still wouldn't matter. Slavery still exists and so does the problem of evil until you remove at least one of the omni’s above, but then you have the problem of a god who is not really a god. As Epicurus said:

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”

Your butterfly parable doesn’t work because it ignores the fact that an omnipotent and omniscient god should be able to devise a better system to achieve its goals, or could skip the suffering part altogether. It is the equivalent of excusing a parent who locks their child up under the stairs and tortures them as a method of helping them to grow as a person.

Inflicting evil, or allowing it to happen when it could be prevented, is evil no matter who inflicts or allows it, and your appeal to the mysteriousness and incomprehensible infinite wisdom of Allah doesn’t get you around this. This is how I can know that Allah permits evil for no good reason, because there is never a good reason to permit it. Your amputation analogy doesn’t work for the same reasons.

Continued…

…Continued

<<I guess what you are saying is that: 'I don't believe in God in part because if there were a God then He would be allowing evil things to happen to people for no good reason.'>>

That’s one of many reasons. The main reason, though, is because there isn’t sufficient evidence to support the existence of a god.

<<…you asserted in your earlier post that God had stuffed things up because He created an imperfect world and somehow compounds the problem but not preventing evil. According to Islam, there is no imperfection, all is as it should. We are perfectly human>>

This is a tautology and a paradox. It sounds poetic, but is essentially meaningless. In other words, we are ‘perfectly imperfect’. How can one possibly be ‘imperfectly imperfect’?

<<Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “I swear by Him in whose hand is my soul, if you were a people who did not commit sin, Allah would take you away and replace you with a people who would sin and then seek Allah’s forgiveness so He could forgive them.” [Sahih Muslim (2687)]>>

This reminds me of my daughter, when she was 18 months, who’d spill her drink so she could say, “Uh oh!”, or hit the dog so she could cuddle him better. Basically, it’s saying that Allah is an egotistical megalomaniac who has the maturity of a toddler.

You make excuses for your god doing and allowing things that you yourself would never dream of doing, or tolerating others doing, by simply appealing to the incomprehensible. Yet despite this incomprehensibility, you are quite happy attribute the good to your god: if Allah helps someone find their keys because they preyed, then Allah is good; but when he allows millions to die in terror and agony every year, he’s just mysterious. It’s utter madness.

"Religion allows sane people, in the millions, to believe what only a crazy person could believe alone." - Sam Harris

OUG, "the Godless have no conscious", they have far more conscious than any person who is writing rubbish like yourself.Religion is a curse on the world as it is and the stupid rules and regulations they make are absolutley ridiculous, Religion in India forbids eating Garlic, Jehova Witness, do not take someone elses blood, SDA, don't play competitive sport, Catholics not allowed to practise contraception, Muslims,women are second rate beings, and the list goes on and on.
We Atheist's do not have the hang ups that all religious people have and are far more loving and caring than any church going person, we would prefer the world to be rid of relgious wars, concocted by religious cranks.
What I would like you to do is physically show me a soul, spirit etc, then I will start to believe what is written in all of those man made religious books.

OUG,

<<the godless have no conscience>>

Alas poor OUG, we are all Godless.

But there has always been some among us who have been wont to mistaken the shadows cast by the camp fire as the movement of spirits. Such shadows, however, have only ever been reflections of ourselves. Which is why all gods projected by such seers are flawed version of ourselves -- And your own Church of Latter Day Essenes is no exception.

There are truly more things in in heaven and earth, dear OUG, than were every dreamt of in your philosophy
______________________________

AJ Philips

Great post.

I also agree with your brilliant post AJ Philips, it is very well written, wished I could do likewise.

onager..CLEVER..quote..mining
but mate..had you read..further..you would see..that/you
and special./agent.provocateur[qr]..or sap..for short..

have distracted away..from the REAL..reason..for..the words..[child abuse.. specifically..tamudic facilitated..sodomy

[of ANY child..UNDER..9years[and a day]..old

Child sacrifice..was practiced in ancient times..AS..MUCH..as today*> ..as offering..to..*Molech.. the Ammonite diety..[or mad]..for short]

a worship of natural.*fertility..*which was*..*SPECIFICALLY forbidden.. *by the laws..of Israel..[under/the..noahtide..laws.. of..my tribe..of levi]..and many/other god creeds..besides.

See Leviticus 18:21; 20:..1-5;
1Kings 11:7;..2 Kings 17:17; 21:6; 27:10;

Jeremiah 32:35; Ezekiel 16:21...

AND EVEN..the GOSPEL..see matthew..23*[all]..5;14-48..james..2/3/4

ANYHOW..lets..vent a little
then quote..the quote..you.and sap[qr]..
are/trolling..[DISTRACTING},..others AWAY*..from..

PLEASE..NOTE*..AND RESPOND*

what laws..do settlers..
in..dark/places..[in..others lands/with duel passports
diplomatic immunity..etc..LIVING..under the talmud..law..in deserts..[unseen]

[what HOLY text..do they..live under?
talmudic [sic*].law?

http://www.biblestudysite.com/factsarefacts.htm
some..quotations;..from the Soncino Edition
of/the Talmud,(Book]

SANHEDRIN,..55b-55a:..
"What is meant by this?...

Rab said:..Pederasty with a child//below nine years of age..is not deemed/..as pederasty..with a child above that.

(footnotes)"..The reference is to..
the passive..'subject'/..[I SAY..*victim}..*..of sodomy

SOD..you bloke..its ok..too ignore
sodomy..upon..little..ones..*UNDER NINE.!

YOU..LOT..[the..seemingly..GODLESS]..defending the indefensible
by Detraction..just like..you..AND S.A.P[qr]....are doing here/now..[sic*]

BUT>>IT GEtS EVEN WORSE*
full..[not..just..the MINED/quote..continues

<<now lets..go EBEN..younger

YEBAMOTH,60b..*...Rabbi.Ramanos who conducted an/inquiry..and..'found'..in it..the*..daughter of a..'proselyte'..
who was.,,*under..the age*of three years..[and one day]...,

and.Rabbi declared her/eligible*..to live/with a priest."

(footnotes)"..A proselyte..under*..the age of three years
and one..day may...be..*married by a priest...

*And..*was married..to a priest.

(i.e.,permitted..to continue/to live..with her*..*'husband'."]

[DO..YU0..[pair..of useful/idiots..[godless fools]..NOT GET>..IT..?

satan..is putting the spin..[DETRACTive/spin]..into..your every mindless..even pathetic..mined/quote/post..[but as..the koran says..those god wishes to./..destroy..he first makes insane]

whether..or not.thats..true..i dont..want/to know.
[i couldn't..believe..it..till today*..AND..YOUR CLEVER AJ..three-way..may..have driven..confirmation..of it away*]

[only..it wernt god..its satan...[AND/..HIS..useful/idiots..[no offense..intended..[but who reads..my posts/let..alone understands them..anyway...right]

CERTAINLY..not you pair
jesus..knows..god..loves..you..anyhow..sadly..so/do..i.