yes your right..aj..god dont need sufferance
but it seems men..do..thats why they NEED to be here/now
till..they wake up..to..that..one..simple fact.

<<..There's no reason we couldn't all be taken up to heaven now as perfect beings...>>

doy..you realise..what all..them..insane suffering fools would turn..heaven..into

think..oh..son..of of/man

<<>.What do the lessons in this life prove..>>

they dont prove anything..the validate
wether we are ready..tolove.grace/mercy[byfirst giving..it]

or reject god..and good
and get a chance to repent..[sort..themselves/out]..in.that default/place..of darkness..[because some are insane enough..to../reject..the love/light/mercy/grace..thus they created..for them-selves..their own..personal/ hell

[hell..isnt eternal
merely..infernal..[internal]

<<if we’re going to be perfect beings when we enter heaven anyway?>>

yes..in/time..we all.shall..see the light
[but..it takes..some/longer than..others[judus
for example..spent 1900 years..in..hell][jesus only 3 days]

and then..suddenly..we get iyt..we..realize..
love of other..begets more love..but hate..of other..begets hate/fear begets fear..etc

grace begets grace..mercy begets mercy

god..would agree..<<There’s no reason this unnecessary step..>>

but alas...menare toodumb torecognize a good offer*

..this sentence alone..would..[for ezam-le]..keep/you out of heaven..<<unless Allah wants to watch a few trip-up between now and the end, and suffer eternal torment for it>>

its cause of thoughts like that..we need earthy..incarnation
then hell..to..work/off the earthy dross

this classic/redemptive..free/book
explains..it's various/steps,,via a..biography
http://new-birth.net/booklet/Gone_West.pdf

oh..and the reason..for all/them..dead kids
mate you wouldnt send a dog..down..to..earth..if you didnt need to

why keep/them..in/this material/hell..longer than..needed
had they..stayed any longer they would retard..their spiritual growth/curve.

you are allowing death..to appear a bad.thing
material..death..is a blessing..it means you served your time*

the same payment[wage][graCE/ETERNAL]..
REGARDLESS OF HOW LONG YOU WERE INCARNATE...

[sorry..didnt..intend to..yell]

death..dont..mean dead

my..final/re-edit..of post..extracted..from..lamb-island thread

Everyone who has ever tried..to use prayer..to request something,
has experienced.what appears to be failure...This is not only true in connection with..specific things which/might be harmful,..at/this time/place.. but..also in connection..with requests which are strictly..in line with this/course.

The latter, in particular, might be incorrectly interpreted as “proof” that the course/does not mean what it says.

[But you must remember.that the course does state,..and does..say..REPEATEDLY,..that its purpose..of acim..is..that..the suns..of greatness..[in/other]..ESCAPE FROM FEAR.

Let us suppose, then,..that what your request/of the Holy Spirit..IS what you really/want,...but..that YOU ARE STILL AFRAID OF IT. Should this be the case, your ATTAINMENT..of it..would no longer BE..what you want,..even if IT is...[for god..to create..it would mean..REALLY..making that hurtful..real.

gods not going..to create hurtful/illusions
This accounts for.,.the why of how..CERTAIN/'SPECIFIC FORMS of healing..are not achieved,..[even though the STATE of healing IS..assured..once the illusions drop/from our heart.]

It..frequently happens..that an individual asks/for
physical healing,..because he is fearful OF..BODILY HARM...However, at the same time,..if he WERE healed physically,..the threat tohis thought-system ..would be considerably MORE fearful..[to him]..than its physical/EXPRESSION.

In this case,..he is not really asking..for RELEASE from fear,
but for the..removal of a symptom..WHICH HE HAS..accorded reality..to..[personally/SELECTED.]

This request is,..therefore,
NOT for/any true healing at all.
[recall/healing..is simply correction..of error]

[error cannot heal error]

The Bible emphasizes..that ALL prayers are answered,
and this..must be..regarded..as true,..[if no/effort is wasted...is the truism]..

The very fact..that one has asked..the Holy Spirit for ANYTHING,..will
ensure a response...But it is..*equally certain..that no response, given..[by the Holy Spirit,].will..EVER be one which would INCREASE fear.

It is even possible..that His answer..
was not..heard [by the questioner]..at all.

It is IM-possible,..however, that...any question..will be lost.
There are many answers..which..you have already received,.but have NOT YET HEARD.

I..[jesus]..assure you ..that they are waiting
for you...It is indeed true..i..reassure you..that no effort is wasted.

jesus/continues..page202
http://miraclevision.com/acim/urtext/acim-urtext-2003-upe-ready-edition.pdf

AJ Philips
You say:
<<'Context' is an old apologetic pulled by Christians too, and it doesn't work.>>

I not sure what to make of your statement that I'm "pulling" an "old apologetic". Can you elaborate on what it is that you think doesn't work and why?

Wow. Really, grateful?

<<I not sure what to make of your statement that I'm "pulling" an "old apologetic". Can you elaborate on what it is that you think doesn't work and why?>>

I just posted a few hundred words explaining precisely that.

The 'context' argument is a classic argument frequently used by Christians to explain-away the fact that (mainly) Deuteronomy and Leviticus contain some dreadful laws and condone some awful things. An amusing video by a popular counter-apologist, making fun of the Christian use of it, can be found at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK7P7uZFf5o. As a Muslim, I think you'll appreciate it.

As for elaborating on why it doesn't work. I'm not sure what more I could say. The problem of evil is two-fold: on the one hand, evil things happening to people and your god allows them too (and for no good reason too, by the way); on the other hand, we have a god who is apparently evil in the sense that he allows so many to live and die in such horrifying terror and agony that it would embarrass the most psychopathic killer.

Perhaps if you tried to answer the questions I posed to you in my last post - even just to yourself - you would see why your arguments don't work. So, again, I ask you: in what context is slavery okay?

context..of..couirse is vital[the vidio]..begins..with/many..nice things..from the new testiment..that bought..THE NEW law..[love god by loving other]..

why ya think jesus came for..bur..to clean/up..the muddle
of the mosaic/laws..even jews couldnt follow..[written/by an egyptian..'adoptive royal']..who simply repeated..as if law..what he no doubt..learned..from egyptians..

regardless..JESUS..did come..did deliver the NEW/law
but the new law,,couldn't fit into..the old whine skins

jews..take the law..RATHER..seriously..they SPECIFICALLY..rate
their leaders..toughly[areal sharron..still lies in a coma..for example..[why]..simply..for trying to make peace][their tough/ enough..on all..BUT ESPECIALLY..upon the priests..[FOR WHO THIS specific/LAW=[levi..21;..was..L.A.W...law[levi=the priest/law.

[to whom..much was given..MUCH was to be expected]

as for the proverbs thing..[gods law is a shield
what else you expect]..these were tough timee

http://www.google.com.au/search?q=proverbs+30

AJ Philips,

Before responding to your posts can i ask that you be upfront about your sources in regard to the teachings of Islam. Where does this stuff come from? Are your sources reliable and impartial? Do you think they have they done their homework?

In regard to slavery, can i also ask what is your understanding of the nature of slavery? Are you saying that Islam encourages slavery?

As for the following statement:
<<As for elaborating on why it doesn't work. I'm not sure what more I could say. The problem of evil is two-fold: on the one hand, evil things happening to people and your god allows them too (and for no good reason too, by the way); on the other hand, we have a god who is apparently evil in the sense that he allows so many to live and die in such horrifying terror and agony that it would embarrass the most psychopathic killer.>>

I guess what you are saying is that: 'I don't believe in God in part because if there were a God then He would be allowing evil things to happen to people for no good reason.'

I'd respond by asking, IF there were a God how would you know that He was allowing evil to occur FOR NO GOOD REASON?

I don't dispute that evil things are happening to people. But for no good reason? Don't you mean for no good reason that YOU CAN SEE. The fact that you cann't discern a "good reason" doesn't mean there isn't one!

Furthermore, if God commits an evil does that imply that He is evil? Of course not. The parable of the butterfly or the amputated hand shows that one can intend good through an evil act. If the choice is between amputating the hand or allowing the gangrene to spread then the one who left the hand intact would be the evil one.

cont....