Typo in the last quote: "diversity" should read "adversity" :-)

'Something has to come from something, '

Ojnab

tell that to the god deniers who use their blind faith to support the big bang theory.

greatfull..quote..<<.and if he comes..across some diversity,
he..is patient,..and that is good for him.”>>

god..loves our differences
our own face..our own finger prints
our own eye-sign..our own dna..smell/taste..obligations..etc etc

our differences..do..need..patience
till we REAL-ize..we share more in common..than difference

same god..same joy

<<..Typo in the last quote: "diversity"
should read "adversity" :-)..>>..

yep..that too
its all..good
thank-you..for the insights

god did send men-kind..so many..messengers
..for the insights..[that the only true enemy..is ignorance..itself]

and any..ignorance..is simply a..lack/of fact

salaams

may peace be...realized..upon all..man's..many messengers

grateful..your parable..reminds me of others
like that..of the lost/sheep..and the hungry wiseman..

there..was one..who wast..2de born..[as seems reasonable
the first..born..received..the fathers duty..thus did cain..inherit
the..land/fixtures[ie he grew the grain]..tended..the fathers fields

the second..borne..lets call..him able..was thus made keeper..of the fungibles..[he was given..one..femail..lamb..[anyhow..the first born..was arrivved at..and the keeper of the fixtures..reaped..of the grain.

crushed and burnt..the seed..and duly offered his tender offerings before god..who looked at the feted mess..and wast not pleased..he said..i made the seed/grow..i bought the rain..i made the sun/to shine[you took living seeds..murder/them..now present their defiled desecrated corpse.]

anyhow the keepers of the fungibles..presented..the fat..of a beloved lamb[the fat revealed..him to be a good Shepard]..and we all..know how that ended..[but..itell the wrong tale.

anyhow..in..time....another..second/born,..son/
too got his inheritance..of a single..lamb..in time he had grown..his one..into many[lets say..100]..anyhow..one day..one goes missing [strangely..it was the very first]..not..unusually..he went looking for it..[someone..asks why]

well..firstly..it was..the eldest..the mother..of the 100
but so much..more..yes..able..was Sheppard..but he learned his art..from..the one..but more..she was the ever present..if she was missing..there must be a real..problem..but there is yet more..she KNEW..the safe places..knew the best grass..knew the best water..she was in partnership..tending the second borns flock.

anyhow..[next story[...the wise-man..was wandering..to..and fro
he wast hungry..so he asked god..for food..god..sent..an eagle..to..snatch..a fish/dropped it at the holy-mans feet

the holy man..didnt want..to kill to eat..so returned..it to its water..and it lived..and god was pleased..[why..he was pleased..lays in the parrable..of the 100 small fish..and one large]

one day a fisher/man..found 100small fish..and one large...in..his nets..the man..took 50 of the small..and returned..the big one and 50 little..back intothe waters..[why]..is simple to reveal.

see the big fish..was a Sheppard..[protector fish]..it kept other big fish..away..from the little ones..made..the sea safe.,,for its young..

had the fisher..taken..it..the 100..would soon..become fish-food..as another big fish came..into..the unprotected area..and ate the lot..

anyhow..in trible society..the discoverer..of aa resource..may lawfully claim..half..the other half belongs to other finders..no matter how many finders..there is always..half..is.left remaining..
[it respects god..and other..moral?..[respect/duty...the things we do..affect other.]

Grateful,

'Context' is an old apologetic pulled by Christians too, and it doesn't work.

<<In general though, this is true for all sincere believers, that their greater hardship is made a cause for their greater reward in the Hereafter.>>

So here we have this supposedly all-powerful and all-knowing being, and this is the best system he could come up with?

<<Sometimes struggles are exactly what we need in our lives. If Allah allowed us to go through our lives without any difficulties it would cripple us and we would never be able to fly!>>

The same could be achieved without the suffering had this god done a better job from the beginning. In fact, why would Allah bother with any of this anymore given how much he's clearly muffed it from the very beginning? There's no reason we couldn't all be taken up to heaven now as perfect beings. What do the lessons in this life prove if we’re going to be perfect beings when we enter heaven anyway? There’s no reason this unnecessary step unless Allah wants to watch a few trip-up between now and the end, and suffer eternal torment for it.

<<The example of the butterfly in the Hadith commentary illustrates that we cannot know what is good and what is evil without knowing the context. Is it evil to amputate someone’s hand? The answer will depend on the context.>>

So in what context is owning another human being okay? The Qur'an and the Bible endorse slavery without specifically condemning it. In fact they even contain a guide on how you can treat your slaves (Not a jot or tittle, Christians. Not a jot or tittle…).

Moreover, in what context is it alright to stand there, arms folded, and allow nine million children under the age of five to die every year when you have the power to stop it? By the time you finish reading my post, several children will have died in terror and agony. In what context is this alright? How will their experience turn them into butterflies?

Continued…

…Continued

<<How does an atheist interpret what is good and what is evil?>>

By using the same faculties Muslims and Christians use when determining which parts of their holy books to ignore or explain away because they’re immoral, only we just cut out the unnecessary additional step of trying to make our morality fit with texts written by people who still thought the earth was flat. Do you really think that the Israelites got to Mount Sinai thinking that rape, theft and murder were acceptable forms of behaviour? There aren’t many in the western world who actually get their morality from the Qur’an (or Bible, for that matter) and those who do are blowing themselves up.

<<Returning to the main point, the atheist critique of the “God Hypothesis” is flawed. It fails to recognise that it includes the Hereafter and does not comprehend the nature of success under the hypothesis.>>

No. It simply recognises that the sadomasochistic style of suffering, that we see in the Abrahamic religions, would be unnecessary if a god existed; that the suffering would be the result of a god who had failed; and that a god who allows us to endure the suffering that its own failures cause - without ever asking us if we even want to be a part of his celestial dictatorship to begin with - is either impotent or evil. No acknowledgement of a hereafter is needed.