zionist..is a jewish..form..of athiesm
http://www.nkusa.org/AboutUs/Zionism/greatgulf.cfm

One means of misleading many Jews and all too many non-Jews is the Zionist misuse of names and symbols sacred in Judaism. They use the holy name Israel for their Zionist state. They have named their land acquisition fund with a term that traditionally implies the reward for piety, good deeds, and charitable work.

They have adopted as a state symbol the menorah (candlebrum). What hypocrisy, what perversion it is to have the Israeli army fight under an emblem, the meaning of which is explained in the Tenach (on the occasion of a previous return to the Holy Land) as, "not with armed force and not with power, but in My spirit says the Lord of Hosts."

The infamous founder of political Zionism, may his name be cursed, who only discovered his own Jewishness because of anti-Semitism displayed at the Dreyfus trial in France, proposed various solutions to what he called the "Jewish problem."

At one point he proposed to resettle the Jews in Uganda. At another he proposed to convert them to Catholicism. He finally hit on the idea of a Judenstaat, an exclusive Jewish state.

Thus from its very beginning Zionism was a result of Anti-Semitism and indeed is completely compatible with it, because Zionists and anti-Semites had (and have) a common goal: To bring all Jews from their places of domicile to the Zionist state, thus uprooting Jewish communities that had existed for hundreds and even thousands of years.

Loyalty to the Zionist state was substituted for loyalty to G-d, and the state was made into the modern "golden calf". Belief in the Torah and fulfillment of religious obligations in Zionist eyes became a private matter and not a duty for every Jew or for the Jewish people. The Zionists made divine law subject to party or parliamentary votes, and they set their own standards of conduct and ethics.

Neither the founder of political Zionism nor any of the prime ministers of the Zionist state believed in the divine origin of the Torah nor even in the existence of G-d.

http://www.google.com.au/search?q=not+all+jews+are+zionist

Yes, Loudmouth, Jews have always punched way above their weight in advancing the cause of humanity, mainly but of course not always doing so in their own homelands. Relevance to the land snatch?

And yes, Mr Singer’s antisemitic libel “Zionists=Jews” is crudely couched as “irony” and its purpose is to peddle the implication that to reject utterly the racist Zionist land grab is to hide a message of Jew-hatred. This is a schoolboy stratagem to protect the atrocity of Israel from the opprobrium that belongs to it, by re-framing anti-Zionism as condemnation of “the Jews”. I hadn’t expected Loudmouth to fall for it.

And incidentally, G. Neuburger’s very readable and instructive account [1] gives the lie to the Zionists’ repeated “victimhood” assertions that the Nakba ended oppression of the Jews in Palestine by the Arabs. I have an anecdotic experience of my own about that. For most of the 1990s I worked closely in Perth with a Jew (since deceased) whose family along with many other Palestinian Jews had lived harmoniously alongside the Arabs or generations until the 1947-8 invasion which abruptly ended the peaceful life, impelling him to flee to Britain. He hated Israel and the Zionists with a passion.

[1] http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/differencejudzion.html (a defence of Judaism against the Zionist liars, also cited by “One under God”).

Hi Jules,

I wouldn't have interpreted Singer's equation that way: many Jewish people, especially on the Left, have been anti-Zionist - while there have been Leftist groups which explicitly support Zionism, the kibbutz movement for example. And as was noted somewhere above, not all Zionists are particularly observant. In fact, many extreme Orthodox Jewish sects have also been steadfastly anti-Zionist.

Perhaps one could also suggest that many Jewish people are so by virtue of their family and social relations, by their common history of exclusion - without being particularly Zionist OR observant.

So, in that sense, there are three broad definitions, often overlapping, of being Jewish -

- political: Zionist (Right and Left),

- religious: observant,

- and social-cultural: people who happen to have a common history of being Jewish rather than Christian or something else, feel comfortable with people with a similar background and history, but just want to get on with their lives.

It's just as wrong, as simplistic, to equate Zionism with Judaism as it is to equate being Jewish with being Zionist. There are, I suspect, a multitude of positions, as there are within any religious group, particularly one which has actually been scattered across the world for a couple of thousand years.

Cheers,

Joe

Loudmouth,

The remarkable intellectual and artistic contributions of Jews to Western civilisation is entirely irrelevant, you appear to agree with Singer that it, in some way, provides Zionism with the moral high ground, I hope not.

The "disappearance" of the Palestinians was always on the Zionist agenda, in fact, so was terrorism.

EJ,

I worked with an Orthodox Jew who visited Israel soon after the Six Day war, he returned with rather racist attitudes in regard to Arabs in general and the Palestinians in particular. I couldn't help wondering whether that was a widespread attitude amongst Israeli Jews.

No Mac, I'm trying to point out that not all Jews, perhaps not even a majority, are Zionist. No more, no less.

My take on the whole sorry business of Palestine is that there has to be movement towards a single, democratic, secular state,sooner or later, perhaps in a century, in which nobody gets pushed either out into the desert or into the sea.

And that there are far, far more important issues, even in the Middle East - Syria, for example, and the ever-looming confrontation between Sunni extremists (the Saudis and the various al-Qa'ida-affiliated groups), and Shia Islam, a potential war between, say, a hundred million people on each side.

On that score, I suspect that Obama is playing a very careful game to calm that conflict down, ostensibly over Syria and Iran's nuclear program, but ultimately to neutralise the Saudis. Frankly, all of that makes any issues with Palestine rather small beer.

Cheers,

Joe

joe/quote..<<..My take on the whole sorry business of Palestine
is that there..*has to be..movement towards..a single,democratic, *secular-state,..sooner or later,..perhaps in a century,>>

this..joe..is an idea*..[ideal?]
but see..that its..untrue..in-part..miss-idea/..

like..think..dear brother..GOD GAVE YOU..the jew..[a/b-origonal/of god]..the land..

but the zionista..[Atheist_JEWS]..
want..a secular state[god-free*..land..[held by eternal war]

now having..[eg]..a god given..or a secular driven..state[to be true]
the concept..[idea..of it must be falsifiable true]

thats mixing..up the of the directly opposing meta*phore
[jew=believer/zionist=god denial[anti-thesus]..

israel..[if it is to,,be]..MUST BE ABOUT GOD[full-stop]
un-secular..if you will.

WHY?

see..yesterdays quote

<<..They have named their land.[EDITED]..a term that traditionally implies ..the reward*for piety, good deeds, and charitable work...>>

its..irrefutable..BY..*ITS VERY NAME*
but wait..there is more non secular stuff

YOU..<<..have adopted
as a state symbol the menorah (candlebrum).

<<..which is explained in the Tenach..(on the occasion of a previous return to the Holy Land).as, *"not with armed force*..and not with power,*..but..*in My spirit..says the Lord of Hosts.">>

see..how we can..hold..two
incorrect ideas..[see previous post]

how does..<<..What hypocrisy,..what perversion it is
to have the Israeli army fight under an emblem,..the meaning of which..means..IN MY SPIRIT*..says the host of lords,,..

we have seen..the perversion..of ideas*[of ego]

jesus fore-warned..of it

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6040#176278

you must remember..someone..FIRST*..*gave you.your ideas.
then you gave them..life..[powers over your living/thought/works

but how trust-worthy..was the source..?
if the source..has..expressed lie/fear..only fear can come out