SF,

Your response proves my point.

It's the eternal trump card trotted out to excuse everything from selling arms to South American dictators, invading territories, assassinations, oppressing populations and constantly defying UN decisions.

They certainly don't "do nothing".

Although I wasn't even born then and played no part in what happened I have stated that I find it horrific, but it's not an excuse to be used by others.

I know some holocaust survivors are still alive but does that mean in 20 years, all bets are off?

Otherwise, do the Muslims have a valid reason to avenge the Crusades?

In response to Sam C:

'There has never been any Palestinian state, neither any Palestinian archaeological find nor coinage. The present-day "Palestinians" are an Arab people, with Arab culture, Arabic language and Arab history. They have their own Arab states from where they came into the Land of Israel about one century ago to contrast the Jewish immigration. That is the historical truth.'

No it isn't. See my above post. The Palestinians have been there for millennia.

Also in response to Sam C:

'There is far too much in the written word in Arabic too that the Arabs were asked to stay. Abu Mazen confirmed his family did not have to leave but did so at the behest of the Arab leadership. '

Really? So how do you explain all those massacres and rapes committed by Zionist terror groups in 1947/1948? How do you explain the Absentee Property Law? How do you explain successive Israeli governemnts denying Palestinian refugees the right to return?

Criticising Israel may not be antisemitic, but when other nations escape criticism for acts that are truly criminal, then the critics are Jew haters.
Judaism can be criticised, but when other religions are merely mocked, while criticism of Jews leads to attacks, then criticising the faith of Jews is antisemitism. This criticism needs to be juxtaposed to the privileged status and protection given to Islam despite Taliban massacres, al Qaeda depradations and the recent butchery in London.
The "Palestinians" are a KGB construct. They are no different to their neignbours. And among themselves they admit to that. The Palestinians I met in my DP camp in Germany after WW2 were members of the Haganah trying to help survivors of the Holocaust.
Land theft is of course unacceptable. But every war Israel faught and won was defensive. Demanding that Israel return to the 1948 ceasefire line only invites more attacks; aggressors must pay. Further, every time Israel conceded anything, it led to more demands.
There never was a Palestine, so the assertion that Israel occupies Palwstinian land is a lie. Moreover, UNSC 242 demands that borders must be negotiated and as Wikileaks and recently revealed documents from Olmert reveal, the most generous offers for a statehood were rejected by the so-called Palestinians. The truth is that those Arabs do not want a state, all they want is to deny the Jewish people self-determination.
The claim that Israel killed and raped is just recent propaganda. In fact a far left wing girl got an MA a botu 4 years ago on the topic that the non-rape by Jews was a sign of racism.
And lastly, Israel is not stealing water or anything. It is the PA which encourages water theft and tolerates other crimes.

paul2

"There never was a Palestine, so the assertion that Israel occupies Palwstinian land is a lie"

What nonsense, what does it matter if Palestine ever existed prior to the Zionist invasion?
The people living in what is now "Israel" existed they had families, hopes for the future, land and most of that was annihilated by the Zionists, whatever they called themselves--"Palestinians" or "Arabs" is irrelevant. Aren't they human beings?

"the truth is that those Arabs do not want a state, all they want is to deny the Jewish people self-determination."

The " truth" whose truth? More racial stereotyping. Since Jewish "self determination" really means dispossession and "ethnic cleansing" of the Palestinians it's not surprising that they resist.


"..every war Israel faught and won was defensive."--- yeah sure, Israel will conquer the ME in "self defence."

Your arguments are poorly constructed and transparently racist, but of course, Zionism is a racist ideology, who can defend the indefensible?

In response to Paul2:

'The claim that Israel killed and raped is just recent propaganda.'

Zionist terrorist groups DID commit massacres, assassinations and rapes in the 1930s and 1940s. Many have been uncovered by Israeli historians.

I am also disgusted that numerous commenters in this thread are continually denying the Palestinians' existence. Regardless of what the Palestinians may have called themselves, they were a well-established population with villages, farms, schools, towns, and businesses. And under the British Mandate, "Palestinian" was a full-fledged nationality with a national flag, currency and passports. If the best you can do is just deny the Palestinians existed, then you have instantly lost the argument.