One of the greatest problems that we have in our society and something that is obvious here is the reliance on the media for sources of information. The most obvious ones of these can be often seen in simply reading coverage of news stories in different papers- one paper says this happened, the other says a different thing. Little do people realise how mediated their lives actually are one suspects, but at the same time not everyone has the time or desire to research and check out what they are exactly reading.

Redneck's belief in the 70 gang rape figure is an perfect example of this. From this, and the moral panic that enveloped the mass media in response to the gang rapes and the racial slant put on the story its little wonder we have people such as Redneck coming up with his claims of 'muslim hate rape gangs'. Whilst it is naive to suggest that the media are merely 'racist', one has to look at the coverage of events such as the murder/rape of Janine Balding, the murder/rape of Anita Cobby and the recent Trinity Grammar School boarding school incident, of which whilst there was outrage, there was not as nearly the level of outrage in the cases of the gang rapists.

Finally, rape and gang rape should rightly be condemened. However our consumption of the media during such events must be taken with a grain of salt at all times

We tend to also only read in the media what we want to read, that is if we want to believe that all rapists are Islamic, then that is what we will think that we are reading in the media.

That is why sometimes we have to go beyond the media, maybe go to some basic and easily available primary sources. I would like to ask how many people bothered to read the Court of Criminal Appeal judgements on the resentencing of the members of the group of which Bilal Skaf was a member? They are all there - just take a look through the NSW Lawlink website. On the same site anyone can look at the remarks on sentencing made by the Honourable Mr Justice Sully when he passed sentence on the Pakistani brothers.

You can also look through a veritable catalogue of crimes, and their results, on the victims, on society and on those found guilty of these crimes.

Crime is by and large multiethnic. There are very few ethnic groups not represented in gaol. No group is better, or worse than any other. But it would also be a mistake to brand any one group as more prone to commiting crime than other.

Under the current immigration guidelines I would suggest "totally" is perhaps more appropriate than "deeply".
At the front door (metaphorically) people should be made aware of the lifestyles and values we accept here, that make this sunburnt country so great.
Then one simple question...do you want to be part of it?
if the answer is yes, welcome.
Unfortunately, nobody likes that idea.
So I guess I'll have a big bowl of baba ganoush then give the dog a hard time...

Dear all seeing omnipotent voice of reason,

at least one person likes your idea of making the acceptance of our values a fundamental criterion of a 'colourblind' immigration system.

You can add my name to your list, if you wish to start one.

IAN on your point about 'British Culture' as opposed to a British genetic core.. yes, I take your point there, and its closer to my own intended meaning.

DUCK.. u listed err.. like 3 individuals and a reference to a footy team, and this is supposed to show that the 70 mentioned by Redneck do not show a preponderance of gang rapes by Islamic groups in the context of the period referred to ? not exactly convincing if you were trying to make a 'numbers' based defence of the activity of Muslim male rape gangs.

Still, I don't see much value in seeking to attribute rapes generally to "Muslim males". I think the figures are probably skewed by the large numbers of rapes committeed by a small number of gangs of Islamic connection. Most of what has been said on this is gleaned from the media, and its not exactly 'tight' in an evidentary way.

Scooper. I read that Bilal Skaff is actually Pakistani.

ColorBlind Immigration ?

yep, I don't really have any problem with that. But I would bring out the blinkers on the issues of social, cultural and political compatability.

On Racial/genetic differences and pre-disposition to crime.

This is a bit woolly. Not something which would be dealt with without definitions of terms (what 'is' crime) and close scrutiny of many issues. I think the outcome of a serious study would reveal that most of us possess the inner characteristics which would manifest in similar ways if enough pressure and difference of environment were thrust upon us

I just love that title helen, white false memory - cracks me up.

and sneekeepete, your view on who's unaustralian is absolutely correct.

as for the chinese immigrants, as identified by helen, obviously there many many more of the same ilke and some of them even married into aboriginal families. the most notable aboriginal chinese i think is the former NT politician, John Ah Kit. On a visit to Hong Kong for state business he identified himself as having chinese heritage this is what he says about it-

"The response of my Chinese hosts was extraordinary - and completely unexpected. They informed me that, because my grandfather had come from Hong Kong and the province around Canton, I had residency rights and could return to the land of my ancestors if I wanted. In other words, I had a form of land rights! I'll be buggered, I thought. I'd spent, by that stage, 15 years fighting against big odds to defend land rights in the NT and elsewhere in Australia, and here are my chinese cousins suggesting it wasnt too much trouble to organise, afer all".

The westminster system serves its purpose but those old white australia notions do not. If anything those old notions are only good for maintaining igorance and racism.

Australia was built on the blood, sweat and tears of many many migrant people and those british ancestors of some benefitted more from those efforts than themselves. but it was alright when it was all white in control, and now the tables are turning. and its hard to let go.

Ignorance is a major problem in australia.