Poirot, why do you hate men? Is it all men, or are you just worried about manly men? You know the ones who actually do things.

You've had a go at me for writing about the things I know, because I've done them. You called it boasting, or big noting I think. Well love, when you've done it, & know hundreds or thousands who have done it, it is not big noting, it is just history. As we get older we loose the ability to make much history, but do fall back on our own to help understand things

There are still some men who like to live doing real things, not drive a desk. Usually our history is a bit more interesting, if only to us.

Interestingly most of the things I've done were done by males, often with some lucky woman carried along for the ride. Is that why you don't like men, none carried you along with them, or you refused to go? I've noticed the most miserable women are those who take charge, rather than follow.

It is interesting that less men are prepared to carry a woman along these days. Perhaps it's because modern woman is no longer worth the effort is so many cases.

One area I've found real women is in equestrian sports & work. This is one of the few areas where the sexes are equal. Stick a horse between our legs, & all strength advantage has gone. It comes down to being able to empathise with your horse, & gain their confidence, nothing else really matters.

The other area is perhaps sailing. Girls are becoming pretty good today, now the strength thing has been replaced by technology. They are best at small boats, not really taking to ocean racing in any numbers. Perhaps that is mans antidote to the sanitized existence today, so full of health & safety, that it can bore one to death.

Poirot,
It doesn't bother me that women might cringe at the things real men say, simply because in the world of men the opinions of Females don't really matter. That said real men are able get women to like them on their own terms and it's done by tailoring the things one says specifically for women, I don't really talk about men's business with my wife and daughters that much because it's about as interesting to them as women's business is to me.
We as men among men have to define what constitutes real masculinity ie what WE are willing to accept in Men's conduct and attitudes and what we need from each other, not what women or "society" want or expect from us.
What I'm talking about is the difference between being a good man and being good at being a man, the ideal would be to be able to balance both facets of masculinity, to be a good, honest, brave, just, competent and masterful man, not a craven jerk, a whining overgrown baby or a bitchy faux Lesbian.

Good post Hasbeen,
Might I add that a man can't successfully work with or lead real women unless he's someone held in high regard by other men and real women are always claimed by real men, not just the Alphas but the men who have the respect of both their leaders and their fellow followers.
The type of men women should hate are the Omega thugs, the big babies and the Faux Lesbians, LOL you should hear real Black men talk on this topic, they are way ahead of us in that regard, this is one of the guys who really got me thinking on this in the first place:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFbb2lelBBs
Be angry, I'm angry all the time on behalf of men but you soon figure out what's really worth getting worked up and shouting about and if women cringe, too bad.

I understand there women who enjoy engaging in BDSM at home. Does anyone know if the hitting and other things inflicted on these women by their partner get picked up in Office for Women violence against women surveys to help the office get to the 1 in 3 women are battered by their partner statistics and the 16 billion dollar pa figure that DV costs the Australian economy? (Access Economics found the cost to be 8 billion pa but any big figure will do). I always wonder how these amazing findings are arrived at like I'm trying to work out the difference in cost of a slap across the face when compared to a "put down".

Hasbeen and Jay,

You both seem to have a problem with your persona. My point being that anybody with a healthy opinion of themselves would see no need to pump themselves up in the eyes of others - they'd just get on with it.

Why do you think I hate men, Hasbeen?

You're talking to the woman who spends (too much) time on this forum - a forum dominated by male opinion (and one which continues to see female participation languish in comparison).

I've always gravitated towards male company. In my teens, instead of preening myself on the shore with the other girls waiting for the boys to come in from the surf, I was out there beyond the breakers on my board next to them. One of my first jobs after leaving school was in a service station, full of blokes where I was the only female - I stayed there for yonks because these guys were good and honest and hard working... I got along with them perfectly well.

Of course, we all make judgements on people here, and often we're wrong. Nevertheless, I find Jay's rhetoric over the top, and often Hasbeen's as well.

Well said, Greg.

An informative article packed with some very confronting information.
I'm not sure you talked sufficiently about how far a man's life is about risk. A man is shamed when he won't play someone's approved version of football. Or if he objects to being made to kill others in someone's "just" war.
Yes, we want to have a world in which our kids and grandkids all have a good chance of success.

People who won't see the complexities of sex (gender) need to have a good think, or seek therapy. That includes the hardline feminists and some of the stranger masculinists. It's one society - in Australia or worldwide. Neither sex should gloat when the other has difficulties. Perhaps we will move back to a softer, more caring view of relationships among people, gay and straight, men and women.

I'm writing this from Bangkok which has many many varieties of being a man, and being a woman. It's a society many Australians could learn from.