Years ago Ashley Montagu wrote a book titled The Natural Superiority of Women in which he described how such is the case.
Most of what Greg describes fits in with what Montagu described.

There are profound life changing differences in all sorts of ways between what a woman has to endure in being pregnant, having a baby, and then being a mother for the rest of her life, than being a father.

A woman can both die or even be permanently damaged physiologically and biologicallly by complications that occur during the birthing process.

You make your own luck.

Men are different to women;

If women don't attend university, there must be something holding them back. The System, the curriculum, society, societal expectations, gender roles, there is a plethora of explanations.

If men don't, it's all on the individual men involved, and their choices. They should work harder, and stop mucking around. Even when it's identified that gender expectations influence their behaviour, it's considered a failing of 'men', and they should be more like women.

If women have body issue problems, it's not in any way due to women's individual vanity. It's 'the male gaze', 'men's unrealistic expectations', men's 'attitude to women', that is the problem.

If men damage themselves attempting to be macho, it's their own fault for being so stupid, and it's a personal failing of the individual men involved, they shouldn't be so influenced by peer expectations or trying to impress women.

I'm more comfortable with the male world, the world of individual responsibility, rather than the feminist victim positioning world.

I hope as men we steer clear of all that self excusing, 'un-empowering' BS.

I am male. I am not a victim. I don't look after my health as well as I could, and I am responsible for the consequences. It is my choice. I choose to educate myself to the level I feel I need, I choose whether or not to forge friendships and utilize emotional support of friends and family, and I choose how much I risk further advancement in the workforce due to my preferred level of involvement with my kids.

Other issues are trade-offs for not having Aunt Flo visit every month. Such is life, and my penis more than compensates for many of the impositions listed.

Great article Greg, spot on.
The sad thing is that whenever anyone makes an attempt to rectify any of these horrendous facts, particularly the terrible treatment of Fathers and their children in the Family Courts, they are fought tooth and nail by the Feminists. Feminists who spruik loudly about equality for all whilst at the same time oozing male hatred from every pore.

Turbo,

I don't think I have ever heard a feminist use the phrase 'equality for all'. Now 'equality for women' yes, but never 'equality for all'.

feminist will fight for the rights of women, hence the name feminism. It's not called equalitism now is it.

If men want a better deal in the family court, they can choose to do more day to day caring of their children. It goes with the territory of being the primary carer that when it comes to deciding what's best for the children the primary carer is in pole position come divorce time.

I agree with making as little disruption for the children as possible.

Don't play the victim, be pro-active, and hassle the boss for more parent friendly conditions, and make yourself more indispensable to the care of the kids. Choose a wife who is happy with less traditional gender roles.

There are many solutions.

BTW: The article states 'Generally, more boys than girls have mental health problems, including conduct disorder, disruptive or antisocial behaviours.'

I don't agree that 'antisocial' behaviors, or 'conduct disorders' are mental health problems. They are purely non-conformist behavior. Is it a mental disorder not to conform these days? Perhaps it is.

Mens rights advocates talk in terms of equity rather than equality, a society where men and women both have an equal stake and are able to invest their time and energy into pursuits to which they are personally best suited and which fulfil their needs as a person. By and large the MRA's and the Radical Right (of both sexes) aren't interested in the imaginary world of egalitarianism, we're primarily focused on real world issues such as those outlined in the article and broader philosophical and ethical questions.
Some Youtube channels of note:

Billy Clement.
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDcz_XhGDntf8AT1LNRaZTg?feature=g-all-c

Girlwriteswhat:
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=UUcmnLu5cGUGeLy744WS-fsg&feature=plcp

Davis Aurini:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Aurini?feature=g-user-c

Meanwhile there was an item in the Australian today featuring the Victorian Chief Police Commissioner titled The Grinding Violence Must Stop - and he wasnt talking about violence against men.

We males DO have a problem(S), over the eons we have been reinforced for what we physically do which has resulted in our neurology tending to foster our behaving in some ways that arn't as self serving as they were in the tens or hundereds of thousands years of our evolution.
Women have gone through the same process that has left them better adapted in some ways for our current society.
Our minimal response to our struggles in society is a symptom, WHY are there women's shelters but few if any for men, why are there many benefits for woman's breast cancer and few for the more common MEN's Prostate cancers not to mention our breast cancers (yes guys, You DO
have them and they also can develop cancers)
There are government supported womens clubs, are there also men's? For every men's group there are probably 10 women's, WHY?? We're not wired that way, When we men gather it's about doing a physical act: building things, racing cars, hunting, fishing, etc. Women gather about socially related concepts: the innumerable church and elementary school groups, the league of women voters etc. They join groups and interact more functionally while we're waiting in the forest to kill dinner or maintain our pickup.
Statistically, we're the new disadvantaged mionority. Can we change??
cheers

I agree with all your points except no 11 on infant circumcision. I don't see anything wrong with parents agreeing to circumcise their son/s. I was done and knowing what I know now about uncircumcised males, I am pleased my parents made that decision. I believe parents are in the best position to make choices with respect to the welfare of their children, not know-all outsiders.

None of these problems will ever be addressed while our society is in the clutches of ridiculously unrealistic utopian ideologies, that preach equality yet actually demonise males, particularly White males.
I won't hold my breath waiting for realism in contemporary gender memes.

Part of the solution would be for men to set up their own community groups, but this will inevitably bring the screaming harpies out of the woodwork. Perhaps we need secret hand signals and passwords to get in the door.

One problem is also internalised homophobia.
Men are reluctant to adamantly acknowledge their love, admiration or sympathy for other men, lest everyone thinks, you know.

Shockadelic.
Feminists will always mock men as being Homosexual (ie weak) if they band together for whatever reason, unless it's something they create and control like the "Men's shed" or other bogus "Mens' Group". The society of men is the gang, the war band, the club or the lodge, and "rights" are privileges we give to outsiders who are useful to us on some level. Nothing can be achieved by Feminists without the support of a sympathetic gang of fighting men willing to go and hurt other men in order to enforce the Female supremacist ideal. Feminists use violence by proxy this is why we now have Anti Fascist thugs and private spy rings like the ADC going after anyone who disagrees with the "Screeching Harpies", only when we men of the West are willing to stand up and physically fight back will we be able to return our societies to some sort of equilibrium.

Jay, you are a seriously disturbed person.

Go on, Jay, it's fascinating.

"...only when we men of the West are willing to stand up physically and fight back will we be able to return our societies to some sort of equilibrium."

Pray tell, how do you envisage this marvelous turnabout of events unfolding?

My take: feminist power and influence has increased in proportion to the fortunes of the West. There's less dependency of women on men in a "practical sense"....if our societal fortunes were to falter, feminist influence and the autonomy of women in general would also contract in proportion.

Yes Jay--please elucidate your hypothesys, When you say fight, what are you saying?
I think that we men DO need to learn to band together for our common good. This is now done in situations that are unique to men like football, building things, and other tasks primarily of a physical nature.
Women naturally band together on social levels: management is the best example where over 50% of management is by women, especially among other women who are rapidly filling the workforce which no longer primarily consists of physical activities such as assembling products: vehicles, furnature, large structures and other tasks requiring strength and cognative skills uncommon to women.
We need to tune in to our uniqueness and develop it to deserve the respect of being able to do things better than women--in OUR sphere of compitency.

Michael, your sphere of "compitency" is obviously not spelling.

Articles such as these are sometimes the result of a bitter divorce or custody battle where the man has come off second best.

I have posted a small tribute to the mens movement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFBOQzSk14c

Let the healing begin ...

I certainly agree with all the points from this article that mention men's health.
Surely men can become proactive and go to see their GP's at least once a year for a checkup though? I have seen good health campaigns on TV to encourage men to come forward re their prostate, depression and bowel cancer, so there should be no excuses other than from the men themselves.

All women have beloved men in their lives, be they sons, brothers, fathers, uncles etc. So I doubt there is this supposed feminist conspiracy to ensure women get the lions share of the health dollar. Maybe if men stood up for themselves and demanded more services, like women do, then things would improve.

I hate reading about bitter, whining men who spend all their time blaming women for their problems.
Stand up for yourselves and become active in improving your lives if you are unhappy.
No one else can do that for you...

Jay Of Melbourne, I don't think physical reaction is the solution. This is meme-territory here.
You replace a meme with another meme.

Poirot “feminist power and influence has increased in proportion to the fortunes of the West”

The coming Greatest Depression won't be “Fun For Girls” then.

Cheryl “the result of a bitter divorce or custody battle”

Yes, it's all just the flaws of an individual, not a problem in society-in-general.
Phew! That's a relief!

Suseonline “I doubt there is this supposed feminist conspiracy”

It's not just health funding. It's everything.
The pro-woman, anti-man sentiment now permeates our whole society.
Note: This usually happens on a preemptive subconscious/covert level.

What employer will fire a woman (or any other “minority”) during layoffs and risk a lawsuit.
Fire a white man? Lawsuit, what lawsuit?
Fire Joe and Bill instead.
Same goes for job applications.
Reject the Asian female applicant? Not likely!
Result: perpetually lower employment rates for white men.
First to be fired, last to be hired.

Same goes for attention from teachers in school.
Teacher *unconsciously* imagines future: “My daughter complained about all the time you spent helping Jason Williams with his project.
You spent less than half as much time with Misaki.
I'm suing this school for sexual and racial discrimination, you Nazi!”

Teacher spends lots of time with Misaki and ignores Jason.

Shockadelic, this thread is about how men are apparently more unlucky than women in this world. So why are you raving about racism?
Men are men, regardless of color or race.

One of the points made in the article was that more men die from violence in society than women. Yes, that is certainly true, but the vast majority of perpetrators of violence are men.

Yes some perpetrators are women, but surely we should be concentrating on dealing with the ALL violence, regardless of gender?

Maybe gender equality is a little more advanced here in Australia, but females in most countries of the world are worse off than the males in many ways.
I doubt men are that unlucky ....

Another point in this article talks about domestic violence perpetrated by women.
While I have no doubt this does occur, according to the commissioner of Police in NSW, Ken Lay, it is 95% men who commit domestic violence.

http://www.vicpolicenews.com.au/our-say/10930-chief-commissioner-ken-lay-speaks-at-the-royal-womens-hospial-white-ribbon-day-breakfast.html

I think we should deal more urgently with this fact first, don't you think?

Shockadelic do you have ANY evidence for any of the assertions you have made,or are you all chip and no shoulder?

I'm not so sure shockadelic that this is a society issue. We to easily blame society for stubbed toes, over weight kids, high divorce rate, etc.

If you shoot the missus, is that societies fault?
If you throw acid in her face, is that societies fault?
If you beat her and deprive her of her liberty, ditto?

Nope. If though you want to have a crack at the justice system, be my guest.

Suse, there are a lot of problems with Ken Lay's speech to the White Ribbon Day breakfast. There are too many to comment on individually.

I am sure Mr Lay knew there would be no one in attendance at just another of the many DV industry functions, to pull him up on the things he said. He gives examples of very serious assaults but says nothing about whether the men involved are now in goal. If those types of assaults were common in VIC(pop. 5.6 mil)gaols would be as numerous as Maccas.

I don't believe the Commissioner would have any compunction in misrepresenting the nature and extent of violence against women.

Convincing, informative, cogent, credible argument, that underlines the fact that men and women are different and even wired differently!
Hence the different, whole of life behaviour, needs and emotive responses!
There was a time not all that long ago, when all the education advantages fell to blokes.
More blokes went to and graduated from uni.
More blokes filled all the professional positions.
In our less than thoughtful haste to adjust the pendulum, have we moved too far?
Are we now over compensating, with girls receiving affirmative action preferential treatment, particularly during the school years?
And does this have anything to do with the disturbing fact, that most teachers are now female, who as we know, are wired differently to men, and therefore, may have an inappropriate reaction to boys?
Most men may remember what it was like to actually be a boy, whereas, all too many women seem to scoff at NORMAL male behaviour, with embarrassing peer related put downs that contribute to later male inadequateness?
I believe we ought to respond to feminist calls for true equality by passing laws and legislation; and provide funding, that ensures we have it!
Throughout high school, all education ought to be gender specific, to take into account the very different wiring and specific needs/interests/rates of natural progress and maturation, of both men and women.
There should be no glass ceiling, for either gender, in any area of life or preferred activity/endevour!
Nor lack of opportunity!
We should allow women soldiers at the front line; given , the only requirement/test ought to be the essential psycho-physical temperament, which many men also fail, rather than be gender specific!
If we do ensure truly equal treatment in all areas of life; then surely, we can allow the cream to rise to the top; and, all prime positions filled by the most meritorious candidates, regardless of gender!
And if that were indeed the case, we would surely see more women on boards, in parliament; and far less presenting as "victims" of a pro male system/old boys' club?
Rhrosty.

Rhrosty,

"If we do ensure truly equal treatment in all areas of life; then surely, we can allow the cream to rise to the top; and, all prime positions filled by the most meritorious candidates, regardless of gender!"

I believe women are getting jobs because of their gender not because they are better at the job. Take the example of how one woman crane driver started in her job.

"Only the support and guidance of her male workmates saved her.

In those early days she nearly wiped out a chimney and a TV aerial, damaged the side window and surrounds of her crane, crushed a cattle stop when she took a wrong turn, wrecked a client’s new roundabout, knocked over a beautiful light on a pole, and fractured a water-supply pipe."

With the same performance how many men would have been kept in the job with the support and guidance of their colleagues? And it would not surprise me if she used her gender wiles to get that.

http://www.contrafedpublishing.co.nz/Contractor/2009/May+2009/Women+on+the+march/Jennifer+Wells+crane+operator.html

The thing is, Roscop, that because it is so unusual for a woman to be a crane driver perhaps everyone wanted her to succeed and made allowances, even though she seems to have been an unsuitable candidate. There is no reason why women cannot drive cranes as well (or as badly) as men. How do they select trainee crane drivers? I can't imagine ordinary driving skills would be much of an indicator but I'm sure testosterone levels don't have anything to do with it.

Roscop, if you don't believe a male police commissioner talking about the extent of domestic violence, then there is no point talking to you!

As far as the jail issue goes, we all know it is all the females fault if they get a good hiding from the men in their lives, so there aren't nearly enough court convictions as there should be...

Spend a bit of time in the emergency rooms of your local hospital and maybe you might see how it really is. Many frightened women won't even say who hurt them, so the problem is even worse than you can imagine.

We are still a long way from equality with men in our society, so pat yourself on the back for that fact.

Let me say first that the idea of driving a crane leaves me cold....but perhaps this woman was denied all the paraphernalia of boys toys as a child? LEGO, for instance, provides any number of daring-do type toys for daring-do type boys. They get to build cities, explore the universe, go sea-faring with poirates...aaarrrhh.

And girls get something called "Friends" where they basically get together and...well...chat. They get to play fairies and to make things that look like cupcakes which when dried they can hang upon their person...all good training for crane driving no doubt.

Although: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-11-24/girls-with-guns-27-gender-nuetral27-toy-catalogue/4390080

Have to say that I'm a little confused about where I stand on feminism, so it's difficult not to laugh at that toy catalogue.

My daughter, when she was young, loved her LEGO, which at the time didn't really cater specifically for girls - she bought the pirates and the knights and other boy oriented sets, all of which has been handed down to her younger brother.

Candide I'd go along with what you say "The thing is, Roscop, that because it is so unusual for a woman to be a crane driver perhaps everyone wanted her to succeed and made allowances, even though she seems to have been an unsuitable candidate. " Yes I can just imagine the guys getting their hopes up and tripping over each other trying to help the 44 yo solo mum.

Take the situation of the female first officer on a winter flight into Buffalo NY. The FO retracted the flaps when the aircraft was on the verge of stalling because of ice build-up on the wings. Just prior to that she was telling the captain about her inexperience in flying in icing conditions. Buffalo can get around 14 feet of snow in winter. Add to that the FO was apparently ill with a cold & tired (it would never be said that a female pilot suffered debilitating period pains because that would be an admission that the physiological differences between men and women can affect job performance). Since the accident resulting in 50 people now dead, there has been a lot of effort gone into putting all the focus on the male captain's performance.

Candide, you don't need “evidence” for an opinion. All I ever do is state my perceptions and opinions.
Much of what people “decide” is done subconsciously. I need “evidence” for this?
Should I also reinvent the wheel while I'm at it?

Suseonline “why are you raving about racism?”

Because of the correlation between the two utopian agendas (feminism, multiculturalism/anti-racism) often promoted by the same people, using the same unrealistic phony arguments.

It isn't just “men”, it is primarily WHITE men who are being shut out.
Caught a taxi lately? Gone to a petrol station? A supermarket?
Seen any *White* men working there?

“vast majority of perpetrators of violence are men”

Yes, violence *against* men, by men.
But “To violence against men, Australia says Whatever!”
.
Cheryl “I'm not so sure shockadelic that this is a society issue.”

Of course, the declines in male employment and boy's education are just their personal fault.

These are *general trends*, which you facetiously compare with individual behaviour.

Are wife-murder and abuse going up, up, up all the time?
Are they significantly more prevalent than 30 years ago?

Rhrosty “ensure truly equal treatment in all areas of life”
“by passing laws and legislation”

Arrgh!
The last thing we need is more regulatory interference, trying to achieve impossible utopian ends.
You can't “legislate” personal capabilities.

Roscop “Yes I can just imagine the guys getting their hopes up and tripping over each other trying to help the 44 yo solo mum.”

Men “test” other men who are new to a workplace. They want to see you really have what it takes.
Perhaps they “test” women a little harder. But not necessarily because they want her to fail, they secretly want her to prove them wrong, and when she does, she's “a jolly good fellow” too.

Oh yes Shockadelic, those poor 'white men'.
One only needs to look around the world to see how badly off all those white men are!
Are you for real?

Given the crap conditions and pay for taxi drivers, and that taxi driving has traditionally been one of the few jobs readily available to unskilled (or even skilled) migrants, little wonder that the only white male taxi drivers you are likely to come across are those who can afford to buy a licence. The people who own the taxi companies are, I believe, exclusively white males.

Suseonline, it will probably come as a surprise for someone to tell you this but white men are not all in the one class. It suits men at the top for harried women to be in the workforce in the largest numbers possible. As with big numbers of immigrants it helps to force up the price of everything and keep wages down, ergo company profits go up and they can take home astronomical pay packets to their pampered wives. The Salvo's research tell us if these wives have a "domestic" with their husbands, they won't go off to a women's refuge because they don't have tennis courts and swimming pools.

When its time for upper class men to get their next trophy wife no fault divorce is the way to go. Child support only represents a minuscule amount of their pay packet and they can still afford the ski trip with their kids to Whistler plus half a dozen other trips in the year. If the ex tries to get cute in a child custody dispute by perjuring herself as our fundamentally flawed family law in this country allows he has the income to hire top silk.

So when you sneeringly say: "One only needs to look around the world to see how badly off all those white men are! Are you for real?" I am sure you are thinking of white men more in the upper class than the average white man.

The femisists got what they wanted and are not happy.One would think we would want a progression of all human consciousness,which should include both sexes.

There is no priviliege whatsoever in being a White man and like Brown men if we want a better life the only way we can get it is either by working for it in some demeaning or dangerous job or taking it by force and deception like the "upper class". See that's the point, the "Rich White Males" have stepped over all other White males via deception and the use of force to get where they are ,so by generalising and roping all White men into a class Candide and her ilk are simply betraying the fact that they are anti White. They will spit their bile at White Men while their wimpy pet husbands will deride and degrade White women every chance they get, this Anit Racism and Anti Sexism talk is just a ruse, what they really oppose is the very existence of people of my ethnic group.
Yet the question remains for White men, if not us then who?
Put African or Asian men in charge and you'll get stupendous personal corruption, nepotism, child sex slavery, institutionalised torture and rape and gangs of "youth" shaking down everyone who does try to get ahead.
The only places in which women and children have "rights" are the societies with White men in charge and White soldiers prepared to kill anyone who challenges the system.

Bile Jay? All I did was point out the status quo, which is that white males (some, not all, point taken) are currently at the top of the pile. I would prefer the upper echelons to be occupied on merit, which in my ideal world would preclude the corrupt and venal of any gender or race. And I would like to see institutional bias overcome, as in the unwarranted preponderance of men on Australian company boards and the unhelpful preponderance of women in primary teaching.

Candide,
Explanation accepted and apology offered.
The problem with "empowering" women is that you get a class of mainly White women at or near the top of a society with exactly the same vile temperament as the males they are supposed to supplant, are you honestly proud of women like Hillary Clinton, Julia Gillard, and Susan Rice? Further to that I'd ask why, if a simple man such as myself can learn to manipulate women by studying their psychology don't you think the cunning old White Men at the top of the Anglosphere aren't going to do the same thing?
There's a couple of great videos on Youtube which explore these themes, albeit in a different way, one features the late Tony Judt and another Tony Pinn and they go into the pitfalls of being wedged into the role of front man for a particular group or tendency purely because of their race and the perception that they'll allow others to "get away with more" due to the presence of them as minorities in mainly White movements such as BDS or Atheistkult. My point is that "empowered" women and men from minority groups have thus far merely ended up as front men/women for the elites and that's a process arising of the overall temperament of those "Cunning Old Men", pretty neat trick, hiding their activities behind women's skirts and the White guilt of the wider public.
Julia Gillard and Barack Obama are not in office due to meritorious service or outstanding leadership ability, neither possess any such quality, they are there because of their gender and their race.

Candide the argument that ethnic immigrants are needed to do any job is complete codswallop.
White people used to do everything. Drive taxis, clean floors, fill shelves, construct buildings, dig mines, pick fruit, dryclean clothes, bake cakes, nurse the sick, everything!
The reasons you see less Whites now in many fields is not because they “won't” do those jobs, it's due to changes in immigration policy (the “other” people simply weren't here before) and the effects, mostly unconscious, of recent anti-White (especially anti-White-Male) propaganda.

Does it ever occur to you that White men are at “the top of the pile” because they deserve to be?
That they were successful in business, exploration, science, the arts, political movements because they are intelligent, brave, curious, strong, practical, imaginative, etc.

Suseonline, the residual momentum of this past success is why White men still have significant power.
History is no accident. Those who succeed do so, because others cannot or will not reach the same heights.

Why weren't Africans exploring the world on tall ships?
Why didn't the Industrial Revolution start in the Middle East?
Why didn't Asians land on the moon?
Why are they now only “successful” when they adopt and mimic *our* ways?

This doesn't mean others had no capabilities whatsoever, but if you win Bronze or Silver, there's no point bitching that the Gold medalist somehow had some “luck” or “privilege” you didn't have.
They won Gold because they deserved it, and you didn't.

People are now trying to reverse the realities of history and pretend it was all a sham.
Our society seems to have deteriorated in numerous ways since these anti-realist dogmas took over in the 70s.

If we continue with these unrealistic utopian fantasies we risk the demise of our entire civilisation.
Is it worth losing everything, just so we don't "offend" anyone?

Shockadelic,

You forgot these....white men also excelled at colonising, exploiting, enslaving and/or otherwise massacring other peoples.

Surely we should recognise those particular talents also.

Civilisation is more than cities and technology - it's a state of mind, and one that appears to be less and less in evidence on this forum.

Poirot,
So what do you want to do about it? What's done is done guilt is a useless emotion in the real world where Shockadelic and the rest of us live, do you think the Zimbabwean nationalists give a damn about displacing Whites or for that matter Khoi people from their country?
Here's a new preface for every public utterance, authored by a man of the West:
"I would like to take this opportunity to acknowledge the Wurundjeri clan as the first Nation of the ground on which we now stand and I pay tribute to their elders past and present along with the bravery and industry of the pioneer families of the settler nations"

Are we good?

Shockadelic,
Spoken like a true Man Of The West...now get used to being called a racist Naziwhowantstokillsixmillionjews.

'Candide the argument that ethnic immigrants are needed to do any job is complete codswallop.' Given that I argued nothing of the kind, that statement, Shockadelic, is indeed codswallop. Try learning to read and comprehend before hitting the keyboard and don't misrepresent what I say. If I've used too many big words for you please let me know and I'll post in kinder-speak.

"Spoken like a true Man Of The West."

Lol!!

In fact...double Lol!

This is ine of the most important posts I've read for ages. It is interesting that most of the female respondents are either dismissive or downright sneering - yet surely it is obvious that the disadvantages endured by most males in our society are what has bred a strong sense of alienation and frustration that find outlet in violence - frequently domestic violence? Every point is well put and important, especially the violence of women to men. OK, not usually physical violence, but the violence of sneering, put downs, complaint that engender feelings of inadequacy that can drive a man crazy. I'd really to see a proper investigation into the causes of domestic violence, and I'd be surprised if the cause wasn't the spouse's endless nagging, complaints, demands and 'put-downs' to which the men have no response, because oi they disagree the woman bursts into tears, tells all her mates, and they tell him what a bastard he is.... and so the psychological pressure builds... but this aggression isn't a crime - isn't even considered a reason for repercussions. Society has become sick, but women refuse to see their part in the problem - it's all the male's fault. Single sex schools and remove boys from female influence by the age of ten is the only answer.

Shockadelic "Does it ever occur to you that White men are at “the top of the pile” because they deserve to be?"

Lol! Are you for real?
I'm thinking that you and Jay of Melbourne should start your own Australian branch of the Ku Klux Klan...

You guys seem to have hijacked this "thirteen reasons it is unlucky to be male" thread into the " A hundred reasons it is lucky we are white males" thread.

I can see there is no use reasoning with such thoughts, so I will see you all on another thread.

Hi Suze,

I wuz going to say that Jay's advice to Shockadelic that he should: "...now get used to being called a racist Naziwhowantstokillsixmillionjews" was off beam.

It's more likely he'd be considered "apuerilewesternmanwithdelusionsofgrandeurwhodrivesabrightredV8veryfastaroundcorners."

Poirot “You forgot these....white men also excelled at colonising, exploiting, enslaving and/or otherwise massacring other peoples.”

Right, and the peoples of Africa, the Middle East and Asia never did those things.

Are we forgetting the Ottoman Empire in Eastern Europe, The Moors in Iberia, Genghis Khan/Mongol invasions, Japan in WWII, the perpetual corruption and tribal bloodshed in Africa, Shaka Zulu killing a million other Blacks to build his empire, slavery being virtually universal, etc?

I never claimed White men only ever did "nice" things, but their list of achievements is a thousand times longer than all the others put together.

Suseonline I believe there's already an Australian KKK, and I wouldn't join such an organisation as I'm not a dimwit.
Have I really said or proposed anything *extreme* here?
It is your ridiculously impossible utopian agendas that cannot be “reasoned with”, as they aren't based on anything real.
It is *your* agenda that will result in inevitable bloodshed, as it defies human nature.

Candide “Candide the argument that ethnic immigrants are needed to do any job is complete codswallop.' Given that I argued nothing of the kind,...”

Your statement was about the “crap conditions and pay”, the usual argument presented to explain why “Australians won't do” these jobs (And in Canada “the jobs Canadians won't do”, in Britain “the jobs the British won't do", blah blah blah).
You don't have to use the exact same phrases, the sentiment is the same.
As I said, we *did* do all these jobs once, even with "crap" pay.

Jay Of Melbourne “get used to being called a racist Naziwhowantstokillsixmillionjews.”

I know, many times.
I consider myself to be “anhonestrealistwhoisperpetuallymisrepresentedbygameplayingpeoplewithludicrousagendas”

Ybgirp.
There is no excuse for bashing women, real men don't need to use violence against women because they train themselves to understand the female mind,you're way off target with that post. Since the KKK and other have been spuriously injected into the debate you might like to go and do some reading on what the real men of the South used to do to wife beaters, thrashing them to within an inch of their lives was one of the milder punishments.

Suse, Sooo..you have no real reply to anything the real men say, QED, we win, now go back to your cats, your Tarot cards and your crystals, we're done with you.

Shockadelic,
The KKK, Australia First, Nationalist Alternative etc are a collection of Junkies, criminals, liars,retards and craven omega male types, no real man would want anything to do with them. I've corresponded with some of the old White Nationalists from the U.S and they'll tell you that their "Movement" was completely corrupted and infiltrated with state agents by the late 1950's-early 60's and it was completely destroyed by the late 70's as the activists were jailed or killed by the state. I think we need to make this perfectly clear to the Anti Whites that there is no "White Movement", that the WWI generation were the last full generation of real White Men and Women who were capable of organising on their own behalf, there is no such thing as White unity or explicitly White community bonding.
Most of us don't even know what a real man looks like, the best of us are shadows of generations past, I mean, I'm studying masculinity, men are writing books on how to be a real man, we have to get back what we've lost and re train as men of the West before we can have anything like a 'movement".

Jay,

Might I suggest that a "real man" wouldn't bang on ad infinitum about his supposedly being a real man.

From a female standpoint, it's slightly cringe-worthy to hear a bloke constantly regaling one and all of his masculine credentials.

.....just saying.

Poirot, why do you hate men? Is it all men, or are you just worried about manly men? You know the ones who actually do things.

You've had a go at me for writing about the things I know, because I've done them. You called it boasting, or big noting I think. Well love, when you've done it, & know hundreds or thousands who have done it, it is not big noting, it is just history. As we get older we loose the ability to make much history, but do fall back on our own to help understand things

There are still some men who like to live doing real things, not drive a desk. Usually our history is a bit more interesting, if only to us.

Interestingly most of the things I've done were done by males, often with some lucky woman carried along for the ride. Is that why you don't like men, none carried you along with them, or you refused to go? I've noticed the most miserable women are those who take charge, rather than follow.

It is interesting that less men are prepared to carry a woman along these days. Perhaps it's because modern woman is no longer worth the effort is so many cases.

One area I've found real women is in equestrian sports & work. This is one of the few areas where the sexes are equal. Stick a horse between our legs, & all strength advantage has gone. It comes down to being able to empathise with your horse, & gain their confidence, nothing else really matters.

The other area is perhaps sailing. Girls are becoming pretty good today, now the strength thing has been replaced by technology. They are best at small boats, not really taking to ocean racing in any numbers. Perhaps that is mans antidote to the sanitized existence today, so full of health & safety, that it can bore one to death.

Poirot,
It doesn't bother me that women might cringe at the things real men say, simply because in the world of men the opinions of Females don't really matter. That said real men are able get women to like them on their own terms and it's done by tailoring the things one says specifically for women, I don't really talk about men's business with my wife and daughters that much because it's about as interesting to them as women's business is to me.
We as men among men have to define what constitutes real masculinity ie what WE are willing to accept in Men's conduct and attitudes and what we need from each other, not what women or "society" want or expect from us.
What I'm talking about is the difference between being a good man and being good at being a man, the ideal would be to be able to balance both facets of masculinity, to be a good, honest, brave, just, competent and masterful man, not a craven jerk, a whining overgrown baby or a bitchy faux Lesbian.

Good post Hasbeen,
Might I add that a man can't successfully work with or lead real women unless he's someone held in high regard by other men and real women are always claimed by real men, not just the Alphas but the men who have the respect of both their leaders and their fellow followers.
The type of men women should hate are the Omega thugs, the big babies and the Faux Lesbians, LOL you should hear real Black men talk on this topic, they are way ahead of us in that regard, this is one of the guys who really got me thinking on this in the first place:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFbb2lelBBs
Be angry, I'm angry all the time on behalf of men but you soon figure out what's really worth getting worked up and shouting about and if women cringe, too bad.

I understand there women who enjoy engaging in BDSM at home. Does anyone know if the hitting and other things inflicted on these women by their partner get picked up in Office for Women violence against women surveys to help the office get to the 1 in 3 women are battered by their partner statistics and the 16 billion dollar pa figure that DV costs the Australian economy? (Access Economics found the cost to be 8 billion pa but any big figure will do). I always wonder how these amazing findings are arrived at like I'm trying to work out the difference in cost of a slap across the face when compared to a "put down".

Hasbeen and Jay,

You both seem to have a problem with your persona. My point being that anybody with a healthy opinion of themselves would see no need to pump themselves up in the eyes of others - they'd just get on with it.

Why do you think I hate men, Hasbeen?

You're talking to the woman who spends (too much) time on this forum - a forum dominated by male opinion (and one which continues to see female participation languish in comparison).

I've always gravitated towards male company. In my teens, instead of preening myself on the shore with the other girls waiting for the boys to come in from the surf, I was out there beyond the breakers on my board next to them. One of my first jobs after leaving school was in a service station, full of blokes where I was the only female - I stayed there for yonks because these guys were good and honest and hard working... I got along with them perfectly well.

Of course, we all make judgements on people here, and often we're wrong. Nevertheless, I find Jay's rhetoric over the top, and often Hasbeen's as well.

Well said, Greg.

An informative article packed with some very confronting information.
I'm not sure you talked sufficiently about how far a man's life is about risk. A man is shamed when he won't play someone's approved version of football. Or if he objects to being made to kill others in someone's "just" war.
Yes, we want to have a world in which our kids and grandkids all have a good chance of success.

People who won't see the complexities of sex (gender) need to have a good think, or seek therapy. That includes the hardline feminists and some of the stranger masculinists. It's one society - in Australia or worldwide. Neither sex should gloat when the other has difficulties. Perhaps we will move back to a softer, more caring view of relationships among people, gay and straight, men and women.

I'm writing this from Bangkok which has many many varieties of being a man, and being a woman. It's a society many Australians could learn from.

Good protest about the sad state of men. I have belonged to many mens' groups, and sad to say their apathy is increasing..The fact that most men are passed from mother to wife doesn't help.
So many never before occuring events happened after WW2 ,that male social control over women was knocked for six. Any attempt to rectify will be difficult because from my experience society is controlled by about 30% alpha women and 20% high performing males.
It seems we have our fellowmen as"enemies".

Poirot,
Again, I'm not really interested in your critique of my take on what defines a real man or whether you find my opinions over the top or not since there's no honest reason for me to care what critical women think of men.
Example,real women aren't overcome with insecurity when at parties the men are all out in the yard in a group around the barbecue and the women are inside curled up in the lounge while the babies play on the floor, are you one of those anxiety riddled women who always has to come outside and make some tepid crack about "Secret Men's Business" or "the smell of Testosterone in the air"?
We puff out our chests and slap each other on the back because testosterone is the bonding agent, the matrix of a group of men, teamwork and trust come from testosterone and because real men are often, as Hasbeen points out "Doing things" that male group dynamic, the Mannerbund is critical. Taking a small boat out on the bay is dangerous, so is re- roofing a house or digging a trench, teamwork, trust, honour, honesty and competence are of paramount importance to men because, unlike women we regularly have to put our safety on the line to achieve our objectives...it's not something I expect a woman to understand and the women who do get it and can be part of the war band are one in a million.

Jay,

I really don't have a problem with men doing their own thing, as in cooking a barbecue as a band of brothers or what not. I'm aware that you guys are heroes daily. Why, not so long ago I regaled a story about my fella wrangling my daughter's garage door onto her back lawn in 120 km winds to stop it whipping and damaging. I was amazed at his bravery and presence of mind, because he managed to do it without putting himself in grave danger.

But when you mention things like "...and the women who do get it and can be part of the war band are one in a million.", that's when I think you're stuck in a time warp - maybe back in primary school vetting who can or cannot join your club.

Good luck with that.

Poirot, you still just don't understand. Contributors here know more about me than people I have known for 20 years.

Here we all often illustrate our points by mentioning our experiences. When for example 8 years of my life was spent on my yacht, working around the pacific islands, of course it will come up in the basis of my opinions. This does not happen in every day living.

For example, at my wife's 50Th birthday party, many years ago, the subject got to old sports cars. I mentioned that they were cold, & an experience when I'd owned a Morgan +4. Many did not know what a Morgan was, so I got an old album out, with pics of the Morgan. It was mostly motor racing, & included shots of my Lotus & Brabham formula 2 cars.

The blokes were amazed at this, they knew me as a horseman who went show jumping with his kids, & drove an old Hilux.

On another occasion some locals were surprised to find out about my sailing. Some were impressed, but if I had been talking to some of the dozens of round world sailors I've known, they would not be the least impressed.

I am incredibly impressed by one mate, who has built the most beautiful furniture for his home. I'm also very impressed by another who has built a really nice 24Ft launch to go fishing. I know I could never do either myself.

To go sail a thousand miles, or do a thousand kilometers around Bathurst doesn't impress me very much. You see I've done it, it's not too hard, & it is simply "old hat" to me. It's the things I can't do that impress me.

Well perhaps I've been a bit hard on you, Hasbeen. This is a singular way of communicating, and sometimes we need to include references to our experiences and little triumphs.

Quote-- Anyone who knows anything of history knows that great
social changes are impossible without feminine upheaval.
Social progress can be measured, exactly, by the social position of the fair sex, the ugly ones included.

Karl Marx

Jay, you misunderstand my post. I deplore violence - all violence, however, it is stupid to force only the men to have counselling, as if the female in the equation had no input. It really does take two to make a quarrel, so the female's contribution has to be taken into consideration. There is nothing more inane than someone insisting that 'He hit me for no reason.'
And how conveniently everyone forgets the other points of serious disadvantage mentioned in the article. Why, for example, are we told on the News that there are more suicides per year than road deaths and other accidents, but we are not told that 90% of these suicides are males! This is enormously important to anyone concerned about the mental and physical health of men - but I note that women are not, in fact, particularly concerned about men. They think we're wimps if we're sensitive, and beasts if we're not. The only men they tolerate are those who constantly tell them how beautiful they are, buy them presents, accept the blame for everything and apologise at least five times a day for being a male. There is a great deal wrong with our society, and silly point scoring is not going to improve anything.

ybgirp,

I disagree that women aren't concerned about men.

However, I think the mode of dependence has shifted to such an extent in modern times that it's skewed natural propensities somewhat. I go back to the point that I made earlier - that modern arrangements in the Western world mean that women are not so dependent in a physical and practical sense on men as they were in former times. The same goes for our dependence on our neighbours and our close community. Contemporary society provides all sorts of services and supports through institutional and societal constructs that weren't available in former times. These have usurped to some extent the protective essence that men provided for women and children. Society - and particularly women - have no doubt become quite blase as to their own vulnerability under such circumstances. It's possible these days to go about one's business and have very little to do in a meaningful sense with one's fellows. it's an independence we're granted because society has been set up that way. It's a society that has been fashioned by men, Women have merely jumped on the bandwagon and bought into the modern construct.....I wonder where it will lead?

Poirot, you seem to be suggesting that today men have become more or less useless [compared to earlier less protective eras]. Do you therefore think that this feeling of superfluity is a cause of male susceptibility to illness, suicide, bouts of anger and violence and all the other problems besetting them?

ybgirp,

Do you really think I'm suggesting "...men have become more or less useless (compared to earlier protective eras]..."?

That is not what I mean at all. It's that gender roles have become less well defined because we inhabit a society that is highly mechanised, so that our technology has enabled a kind of androgynous participation by both sexes...compared to the well-defined gender roles of traditional societies.

I believe this rapid evolution of changed behaviour in Western society and its consequential blurring of the lines is particularly confusing for men......although I'm not at all sure that my chosen word of "confusing" is apt - but you get my drift.

Thank you Poirot. Confused is a good word, and applies to women as well as men. Both seem torn between natural evolutionary urges that sustained and protected us until technology eased the burden of mere survival, and the current unnatural urge to be free of all external constraints, resulting in the expectation that individuals have the ability not only do whatever they want, but also the inalienable right to do it, and whoever gets in their way has to be shoved aside.
Yes, this is an egregious generalisation and obviously doesn't apply to either of us, but there is a trend in Western societies towards rejection of reality, belief in 'magic' and 'fairy god mothers' that has the predictable result of disappointment, resentment and anger.
It's a very complex problem and is only going to get worse. Previous societies have 'solved' it by locking women away, as my mother and grandmother were - not literally, but kept supervised, always chaperoned, forced to obey parents and behave 'respectably'. Muslims took this a little further and many religious sects are returning to this mould. Could our entire society see a return to that sort of treatment of females who, when I was twenty, were not permitted to open a bank account without a male sponsor?
During the last ten years neo-puritanism has reared it's ugly head and censorship is on the increase, indicating a desire for authoritarianism among certain sections. The only certainty is that the future is uncertain - especially for women. But if even the most hopeful predictions are true, we'll soon all have far worse things to worry about than gender roles... our survival seems increasingly to be in doubt

Ybgirp,
I don't believe things are going to get worse, I subscribe to the cyclical view of history not the linear one, however in hard times men need to protect women and women need to realise that they can't protect themselves from men from outside their group who want to kill or take them for their own. In the last line of your post you betray a lack of understanding of Gender roles and prove the point about tactical thinking being a uniquely male virtue. It's expected that women will daydream about these scenarios where things are going to become worse for them but it's men like me who are thinking about how to kill or drive off the outsiders, the oppressors or the transgressors. If in the unlikely event that som theocratic or ideological group did begin to "oppress" Western women the only way the situation could be reversed is if the Men Of The West physically attack the system and defend their women with their lives as they've done in the past, there's no confusion of gender roles in the minds of real Men Of The West.

Jay,

But it's "The Real Men of the West" who constructed said consumer/industrial paradigm....and invited the ladies to join them in merrily working, spending and consuming. The real reason for the rise of female autonomy in modern consumer society (aside from its mechanised nature)is that their inclusion in the "workplace" and the attendant boost in consumer behaviour assists GDP to rise.

Actually, Poirot, women have always been gross consumers, no different from today. It was the shortage of men during and after the two world wars that brought women into the previously male only workforce, where they have remained.
Jay, the final sentence in my post was unclear, I was referring to this:
"Stand Still for the Apocalypse" by Chris Hedges. It is well worth the read - not very long, commissioned from a reputable german Scientific organisation by The World Bank to better judge their prospects - not good as the report paints a world convulsed by rising temperatures, a mixture of mass chaos, systems collapse and medical suffering like that of the worst of the Black Plague.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article33155.htm
However, I assure you that as a 'Real Man of the West' myself, when the crunch comes I'll be there on my white horse, sword at the ready to rescue fair damsels.

Ybgirp,
Duly noted. Well while we wait we've got Bear Grylls "Worst case scenario" and The Walking Dead on TV LOL. But you get the picture, I was going to ask Poirot to stand up ,stretch out her arms at shoulder level and turn through 360 degrees because that's the radius of her human "rights", as a woman if she's within about a metre of a man who a tactical brain and mischief on his mind she has no rights at all, you get my drift.

ybgirp,

Of course women have always been consumers...but as a society we've ramped up the voraciousness and waste since WWII.

Jay,

Oh yea!.....I'll leave you to your obsession with being a Real Man of the West. I'm sure your club will thrive and be full of other blokes with the same urgency to enhance their masculine credentials.

Poirot,
Yes...for 'tis the way of things.

Poirot, sorry, you still have no idea on men. You are sounding like a bad case of feminist brainwashing.

I have been a fighter pilot, & racing driver, a yachtsman & a show jumper, not to impress any one, but because I wanted to do things with "feel". It is a physical thing many can not understand.

But it is why I did these things you just don't get.

I wanted to join a service. In the navy I was going to be clean until I was dead, rather than crawl around in the mud as a soldier. I Joined the navy & became a fighter pilot. Please understand, when most of your friends are fighter pilots, being one is nothing special, it is just normal.

When I was invalided out of the navy, I bought a Morgan +4. I wanted a nice car. It was too fast for me, so I joined the Morgan club, to learn about quick cars.

Many of them competed, & suggested I make up a team of 3 club cars going to a country race meeting on Boxing day. I did, & that started an 8 year obsession. I wanted to do it all, & find out how good I was. Once I knew I was not going to be a world champion, I gave it up. But remember, when most of your friends are racing drivers, it's nothing special, just normal.

I went sailing. With my navy navigation training I was in demand to navigate in Hobart races. I did 7. But remember when most of your friends do it, it's nothing special.

I met hundreds of people sailing the world. It sounded great, but believe me the expectation is greater than the realisation. And still remember, when lots of your friends do it, it's nothing special.

I did the Zorba thing, wife house kids the full catastrophe. Again remember when everyone you know does it, ETC.

Continued.

Continued

Like me, the kids liked horses. We ended up with our own little showjumping team. On the side we bought slow young race horses, trained them up, keeping the best & selling many for a profit, to cover the costs. We did it because we love horses, not to impress you or the neighbours.

I don't know what your Real Man of the West might be, but I do object to being placed in some meaningless box, filled with nonexistent types from your imagination.

I am man enough to not give a damn what any one else might think of me. I suppose I would be much better off financially, if I had tailored my activities to what would impress people with lots of money. I couldn't be bothered previously, & am not about to start now.

You will see more clearly, if you stop having the ideas that all men do things only for appearance or effect. The ones I know who do "things" do so because they want to experience those things. If they thought about it, they would realise some will be jealous, & some will think they are posing. Fortunately, they just don't think about it.

Hasbeen,

Well, I think you're right.....I don't understand men. Apparently I never have and never will.....

Voila!

Fancy finding that out at my age!

All of which probably goes some way to explain why I'm one of the few regular female contributors to this male saturated forum.....the reason being that I'm a female who doesn't understand men. For the most part, other women stay away in droves.

You learn something new every day : )

Well I guess that makes us equal Poirot, as I am no closer to understanding women, even after having raised a couple.

Isn't it common for people to adopt false personas on line? Who knows the true gender of each of us. Perhaps the Man of the West is really a Woman of the East...

Poirot, you wrote: .....I don't understand men. Apparently I never have and never will.....
Please don't let this worry you, it simply means you're normal. Men and women have never really understood what makes each other 'tick'. In a few cases this doesn't prevent genuine affection that allows them to overlook their spouse's idiosyncrasies, but most couples never get to that and live in a state of permanent semi war, or they divorce.
There seems to be no solution to this because everyone is what they are, despite themselves. people who love to rehearse plays for hours on end and act on stage, literally can't understand how anyone could practice cricket in the nets for hours on end and play the game... No one really understands anyone else - not even members of their own gender. Its the reason for societal rules of behaviour, speech and comportment - things we reject at the cost of social stability..
For what it's worth, I've usually found your posts rational, sensible and thoughtful - something that can't be said of many of the males.

Candide,
That's more a tactic of the Left, Anti Racists do much the same thing all the time, create third person profiles on Stormfront and VNN or Facebook and post vile, racially abusive material then re post it to their own sites as "evidence" of "Racism".. The rule of thumb is that if someone is being truly obnoxious they're working for the other side, you could apply the same principle to any online interaction, it's a democratic space where people hear what they want to hear and rally to the demagogues who most accurately articulate their own tastes and prejudices.
My only area of skill in online debating (if any) is the formulation and reproduction of slogans and catchphrases, I'm no philosopher, I'm an autodidact and claim no real insight into the human condition, the mental exertion of sloganeering and dog whistling for me is already pushing myself way beyond my essential capabilities LOL

Suseonline told me on 25 Nov.:

"Spend a bit of time in the emergency rooms of your local hospital and maybe you might see how it really is. Many frightened women won't even say who hurt them, so the problem is even worse than you can imagine.

We are still a long way from equality with men in our society, so pat yourself on the back for that fact."

Just listened on ABC radio, to a Dr Angela William whose professional interest is in forensic medicine, saying something like 2% of those presenting to hospital emergency departments are DV related. After subtracting men with injuries inflicted by women wielding saucepans etc from the 2%, the remainder I guess would be there just for minor stuff, like bruises and sprains etc and such visits merely needed to bolster DVO applications.

Considering only 2 in 100 in emergency are likely to be there because of DV, I don't think spending any time there would better anyone's understanding except to confirm the extent of rubbish being peddled by DV myth makers.