Dear David,

<<National self-determination is based on the idea that a people united on some grounds usually ethnic or religious is entitled to a piece of land in which they can found a nation. I think it is a very bad idea.>>

Perhaps so, but if a group of people wish to stick together, purchase adjacent land and demand self-determination on their piece of land because they like their eggs scrambled rather than poached, then they should have what they want: So long as they all consent and hurt nobody outside their group, who am I and who are you to tell them 'No'?

The problem is not that nations or ethnic/religious groups are allowed self-determination, but rather that these are the only ones and others are not allowed to separate themselves on other grounds (say on the grounds of how they prefer their eggs).

<<If the nation founded on such a basis contains people who are not of the ethnicity or religion on which the state is based they become second class citizens. Inevitably there will always be such people.>>

Originally, when the land was purchased, everyone there preferred scrambled eggs. Those who prefer their eggs poached need not apply for residence.

<<He wrote that Judaism is based on false premises. That does not differentiate it from other religions>>

You said it, not I.

This is not the place and time, at the end of this tired thread, to begin a theological discussion, but had I failed to comment, then one could assume that I agree with the word "other", implying that Judaism is a religion.

Judaism is not a religion, but a national/tribal movement which just happens to abuse the name of God, inventing a convoluted version of Him for their tactical-political needs. So long as their god supports their nation, they find it beneficial to worship him. Had their god appear from the clouds claiming that they have no special rights, then they would have stoned him instead.

GoP,

Your statement "Shadow Minister, wrong, the establishment of Israel was and remains illegal by international law." is rubbish. Where is it wrong?

Palestine was a protectorate that was essentially abandoned after terrorist actions from the Arabs and Jews. The partition was not accepted by either side, and the Arab countries invaded to push out the Jews. Today, most Jews have been born there and have as much right to stay as anyone else.