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The Forum > Article Comments > A dreamer of nightmares: Ilan Pappe’s foolish plan to dismantle Israel > Comments

A dreamer of nightmares: Ilan Pappe’s foolish plan to dismantle Israel : Comments

By Clive Kessler, published 20/9/2012

Pappe and his admirers would give away what is not his, or theirs, to cede.

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What a pile of pro-Israeli propagandist pap(pé).

If you manage to wade through the repetitious emotive hyperbole, which meanders pointlessly from insulting Pappé to smacking down Australian Jews who dare to have a more liberal approach than Kessler, you might come away with two impressions: The first, that Mr Kessler believes Pappé and any who listen to him are ignorant hicks, devoid of any connection to the ‘real Israel’ – except, of course, Pappé is himself a Jew born in Israel (with probably greater claim to understand the situation than Clive Kessler) who has done the unthinkable – called out the Israeli government on their historical (and ongoing) misdemeanors in appropriating land belonging to the Palestinians. Ooops.

Statements like: <<What is worn lightly, a flimsy surface garment, is easily cast off. What is worn closer to the heart less so. And casting off what others value far more than oneself and cling to dearly is not generosity of spirit or exemplary political courage but farcical self-delusion>> are not only ridiculously out-of-place in what should be a straightforward political piece, but smack slightly of hypocrisy in light of the backlash against Muslims over the last week.

The second is that, as with all pro-Israeli commentary, no solution is offered. There is much moaning and wringing of hands that both Israel and Palestine must work together – yadda, yadda, yadda – but nowhere does Kessler actually state what he thinks should be done to facilitate this. Indeed, the message is clear – unless you are Jewish, and Israeli, and have deep-rooted and positive connections to the land and, more importantly, to the Israeli government, then butt out because it’s none of your business.

Except, Mr Kessler, it is. Because what happens in the tinderbox you like to call home (even though you don’t live there) affects all of us, in all corners of the globe.
Posted by scribbler, Thursday, 20 September 2012 8:11:19 AM
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I have always been unwilling to make comments on the situation of Israel

Clive claims that because of an ancient "historical" connection to the lands that now comprise Israel the Jewish People that live in the now time of 2012 have an inherent right to live there.

This claim is completely fallacious.

Human history is conventionally viewed as some kind of continuum of human awareness. But in fact it is actually made up of countless numbers of now dead people.

Presumed continuous human awareness, as if any individual coincides with the simultaneity of ALL of time and space, is nothing but an illusion. An illusion which is used to create and sustain the deadly drama that is now being staged in Israel/Palestine.

Who can thus claim to have some kind of historical "right" to live in Israel.
It seems to be that such a "right" can only be tentatively given to the descendents of a family who actually lived there for a continuous period of time, say prior to the Balfour Declaration or the 20th century. Or people who had legal titular documented ownership of land.

Using that definition hardly any of the now millions of Jewish people who now live there have any inherent "right" to be there.

I come from a German Lutheran background which as far as I know has no Jewish ancestries. If I decided to convert to the Jewish faith tomorrow would I then be granted the inherent "right" to call Israel by homeland, and thus the open-ended "right" to go and live there. And thus to participate in the "settler" movement which is systematically stealing the lands of the Palestinians.

A further point God is not the kind of Being who grants any group of people large or small exclusive right of possession to any piece of land, large or small.
Nor is God the kind of Being who chooses or creates a "Chosen" people who thus presume that they have a Divine mandate to pursue and consolidate their self-appointed "historical" destiny at the exspense of the Palestinians, and even perhaps the entire world.
Posted by Daffy Duck, Thursday, 20 September 2012 11:36:21 AM
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OLO really needs to examine its publication policy. Mr Kessler seems to have only a nodding acquaintance with history, logic and the realities of the modern day Middle East. This article is no more than an apology for the regime currently occupying the land they call "Israel". In time they will vanish from the pages of history and the world will be a better and safer place for it.
Posted by James O'Neill, Thursday, 20 September 2012 12:25:50 PM
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Many, if not most, countries in the world today are based on ethnic nationalism or self-determination. This gives a particular ethnic, racial or religious group priority over others in the same geographical area.

In the eighteenth century there were two revolutions. The American Revolution in the Declaration of Independence put out the idea that 'all men are created equal.' and the French Revolution wasabsed based on the Rights of [all] men. It took a Civil War to free people from slavery in the US, and now a dark-skinned man is president. The French Republic is divided between those who support the revolution and those who still oppose it. The latter came to power in the Vichy government during WW2.

The ideals of the two revolutions are still alive, and the democracies which try to make no distinctions between citizens on the basis of their ethnicity or religious beliefs are embodiments of that idea.

Although attention is focussed on Israel there should be no states that discriminate among its citizens.

There should be no Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist or Jewish states. There should be no national churches. Religion should be no business of government. Government should neither promote nor interfere with it.
Posted by david f, Thursday, 20 September 2012 12:56:30 PM
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A great article, Clive. Your views are intelligent and refreshing!
Posted by Bempec, Thursday, 20 September 2012 2:00:52 PM
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Anyone that calls for the destruction of his homeland has lost the right to be taken seriously, and is probably just saying outrageous stuff to get attention.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Thursday, 20 September 2012 2:06:25 PM
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