chrisdbarry (thank you for identifying yourself by your name Chris) asks whether religious organisations will be able to work as they do without the financial support of taxpayers.

As I see it that support comes in a variety of ways:

No council rates on church property provided it it is not being used in commercial activity

charity status brings a financial benefit

religious workers are paid a proportion of salary as a non cash benefit in part in lieu of claiming allowance on the tax return for work related expenses

religious based social care organisations receive public funding

So the answer is without this support religious organisations would definitely need to make adjustments - some churches amalgamated, etc. We would manage, though locally it would be painful.

However the question raised must also be asked of every non religious charity and every sporting club unless you want to argue discrimination specifically against religious bodies which might politically be a hard ask. Regardless removing taxpayer financial support won't kill the church.

Regarding Government funding of religious social institutions, I believe Governments do so on the basis of the quality of care provided by religious based organisations as well as on cost grounds.

I say to Daffy Duck that whilst he might find my brief summary of why evil exists in the world as "very childish, even infant mindset... essentially dim-witted provincialism" (thank you Daffy!) it is an understanding with a very long pedigree and I again assert accords with reality which is why it has survived the centuries.

You are perfectly free to express your own understanding of the reality of evil - its causes and extent - why not do that so that we can examine it and see whether we agree with you or not.

The Christian faith is always reasonable contra Dawkins and Co - it deals with 'on the ground' matters concerning how to live with purpose, dignity, grace, and is available to all for consideration.

So over to you Daffy

Thanks, runner… I knew we could find something to agree about – and like you I want people to do the very best they can. Individual motives may vary when this happens but when it does it is because the people concerned have chosen to… Whatever the incentive was.

My references about history were based on your comments which always seem to refer to concupiscence – so I think I'm on reasonably solid ground theologically as regarding its concept as a backwards construction to Scripture. But no biggie, we can set that aside for another time.

I'm just off now to reread some posts to see if I'm a whingeing, whining, smug, unreflective, assertive atheist.

http://forum.worldfreemansociety.org/viewtopic.php?f=198&t=13337

great minds spin doc/quote""when someone shouts
“bottom of the hole”, they all start digging?""

the link requotes another talking about holes cant be dug up
only down...[i joined that to the pits of hell/karma..rebirth
the route..we ALL used to come here

our way to our reasoning for being

""David,..what is it you contribute?
You to try to turn atheism into another religion.""

lol

""Is there something so difficult,,about irony
that makes it impossible..for you to observe it?""

i so wish to answer
but i trust others to see the irony
of a xtian telling us..re an athiest meeting
and responding!

but now finding the post limits...lol
forced into silence..or partial rebuttal

its ironic

""It really is time;;for you..lol
to leave our medieval values..behind..and move into the 21st Century.""

the irony
lol

""Start with leaving these behind;""

-the divine right""...belongs to usw all
not just a right""of egotistical kings""..priests/do nuthings and dole bludgers

""-the inferiority of women""

you cant free a slave
who loves being enslaved
its a life choice...sure inform them
ask if its by concent..but not all feemails want to be men

ask ya wife..if she would rather be your mother

""-the idea that a wise State knows all""

yes please explain that
[its cause we chose a representative[govt]
to think for us..tell us
what is right/wrong]

take our rights
to diss-abuse others wrongs

""-the idea that the individual is always right""
find ways to let others be right too

""-the bitter-sweet addiction,..that transforms a doctrine
from a mere model into something sacred and worth killing for.""

the god [good]..of all life/living
is not served by ANY death

thus there is no death
read the link

Quite frankly, I'm surprised he got out of there unscathed. I've heard those atheists are quite amoral and will kill and eat anything that moves if they're hungry.

They must have had the baby sacrifices before he turned up, that's why there were no children.

Either that or they didn't want to torture them by forcing them to listen to Prof. Dawkins talk about evolution.

David you write perceptively

'its one thing for the anti God brigade to post mostly noisy and rude blog entries (mralstoner is a notable exception); its another thing to ask how serious are they, will they dig deep and sacrifice time, intellect and money yo their cause'

It is amazing how secularist nearly always want Government to pay for their causes. When it comes to giving from their own pockets it becomes a completely differnet matter. The likes of Gore and other evangelist make American Christian evangelist look like small timers.