Pericles,

"Why on earth do you feel it necessary to spruik yet another "movement"?" "Don't we have enough...(I ((Saltpetre)) choose not to repeat the closing comment here).."

I think you have been a little unkind here, after all we have discussed in other threads the question of RE in schools and the alternative of classes in ethics, codes of conduct, morality, philosophy, integrity, reasoning and rational/critical thinking, conscience and social responsibility, etc - and even the possibility of 'alternative schools'. Some of those discussions certainly smacked of a 'movement' - and I believe for good reason(s).

Surely there is justification here for a reasonable hearing? (Not that these considerations are a matter of either theist or atheist persuasion, nor of Liberalism, but rather of simple humanism.)

GlenC, you write in some sort of way to think you have trapped me

'Here's another: if you cannot come up with a time and a place when society was the way you think it should be( ie little or no sin), then you'll just have to drop your argument that modern woes have been caused by modern, rational thinking'

Every generation since Adam displays the fruit of mankinds fallen nature. When that nature is fed and immorality encouraged things go downhill.

Man's problem has always been sin. Governments, educators and judges have fed man's pride and lustful nature through what you call 'rational thinking' over many decades. I call it stinking thinking. Again only fools deny that pornography doesn't lead to debauchery and child abuse, feminism to breakdown of families and the championing of homosexuality to perversion.

'Rational ' thinking sees woman killing their babies guilt free, lying as an acceptable part of life and the dogma of moral relativism justifying every evil deed on the planet. The fruit of 'rational ' thinking is obvious to anyone with their eyes open and can breathe. The same people who push this stinking thinking are so full of themselves that they claim human nature is good while displaying daily their Christophobic fixation. No wonder how so many are fooled into Islam with such a moral vacuum from these clowns.

Yo, Saltpetre!,

"The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honours the servant and has forgotten the gift."

(Guess who said that?)

And notice how he puts it so much better than runner.

Answer: - Albert Einstein

runner,
What do you call your form of thinking and your expression of that thinking?