Philo,

"...I never called non-Christians communists."

Squeers and McReal both identified themselves as not supporting chaplains or Christian proselytising in secular schools. I trust you judged accordingly that they are not Christians. You then went on to say that they had both identified "their communist agenda" by quoting a statement concerning the instruction of children....or are you of the opinion that stating someone has a communist agenda differs from actually calling them a communist?

Philo,

Whether these children were neglected street kids or from church families is entirely irrelevant; there’s nothing about these kinds of studies - all showing the same correlation between societal health and religiosity - that refer specifically to religious families alone; more the society they live in on the whole.

So my point still stands.

The real juicy bit of irony here, though, is that the incidences of homelessness tend to decrease as religiosity decreases too.

P.S. I forgot to mention the incidences of STD’s in relation to the religiosity of a society. That shows a healthy correlation as well.

Philo,

Did you expect that the secular youth workers would give the street kids a talk about ethics and morals and do you think this would have changed their attitude?

Street kids have many problems and few strengths, and they don't trust people: they do not respond to lectures on stuff like responsible birth control.

The secular youth workers should have known - from their psychological training rather than just having faith that Jesus heals all - that to stand up in front of these kids and act like an authority figure would have destroyed any chance for establishing a relationship later, in which they could have some influence on the wayward youth.

Mollydukes,
As well meaning as you are the youth leaders who spoke were secular trained Government employees. We from the Church opened doors for the kids off the street to just come and relax and play some games - snooker, table tennis, darts etc and just chill out with a snag and soft drink. No lectures from us; just endeavoring to be a friend. Secular counselors were just feeding their unsociable habits, promiscuous sex, drugs etc without real answers to life that give encouragement in a wholesome direction.

Philo

My youngest son is a secular youth worker. He works for a church based organisation and is very happy with his employers and their policies so I am not anti-christian at all.

I am anti your conviction that religion is the solution to all social problems. Street kids tend to have a well developed hypocrisy detection system and the fact that christians do not behave like Jesus is a fundamental problem that you christians don't ever address adequately with them.

You say that all you wanted was to be friends with them but that is not the way the kids would have seen it. They tend to see your largesse as a bribe with an ulterior motive.

I know how this feels. When my second son died, the Uniting Church in the small town we lived in offered their beautiful church to us for the funeral. They were wonderful and I appreciated it so much.

But, in the weeks afterward, the church ladies kept coming to my house and trying to 'convert' me. At the time, consumed by grief, that's how I saw it. I saw later that they were only trying to help in the only way they knew but it wasn't helpful.

I felt threatened and was angry that they were taking advantage of my emotional state to 'foist' their solution onto me. It was an added problem for me to be kind and nice to them when I was so distressed, and it was difficult for me to refrain from telling them how problematic and inadequate I found their solution.

I didn't need any help. I was doing a PhD in psychology at the time and had so much 'real' help from my friends and colleagues who were 'real' psychologists.

We have all come to terms with the loss without any need for Jesus.

Mollydukes,
I am sorry to hear of the death of your son. It was dissapointing that ladies tried to take advantage of your grief. Grieving people need a sincere friend not a lecture.