I have no doubt that the vast majority of school chaplains are lovely people who do really nice things. But that doesn't change the fact that chaplaincy, spiritual guidance, pastoral care or any religious service does not have a place in our state schools.

Rather than chaplains serving in a "first-response capacity", I see them rather as an unnecessary middle-man (if you'll pardon the gender-specific term). There is no reason that students could not approach a counsellor in precisely the same manner that they approach a chaplain, but without the impeding factor of a particular religious affiliation. The services that chaplains provide over and above those of better-qualified counsellors are superfluous - and in some cases detrimental - to the needs of students. If students need pastoral care, it is readily available from their church, the Salvos or other *non-government* religious organisation.

In reference to the author's statement that chaplains have a "neutral, rather than disciplinary role" - what does this mean? In what way are chaplains "neutral" where qualified non-religious counsellors are not? Proselytising or not, "neutral" is not a term I'd apply to a religious role.

Tim seems to be basing his opinions on 2 false assumptions

(1) that The High Court Challenge is about the role of chaplains.

It is NOT it is about the legality of the commonwealth funding chaplains in state schools. The argument is a legal and constitutional one and has noting to do with the role chaplains may or may not play in our society.

By arguing that because he likes chaplains their funding should not be questioned is saying "because we are nice people we should be allowed to break the law as we are not really doing anyone any harm" the law is the law and should be obeyed.

I think if Tim actually read his bible he would find many passages extolling the virtue of obeying the laws of the land and very few suggesting that it is OK to break the laws.

> Continued below

(2) Tim asserts "(chaplains) have been a much-loved part of the Australian landscape for decades."

On this issue he is just displaying his ignorance and arrogance, Chaplains of all sorts may be much loved and appreciated BY PEOPLE LIKE TIM but they are certainly not loved or appreciated by everybody. Perhaps if Tim was more interested in the truth and less interested in supporting his own beliefs he would have openly and honestly questioned a wide range of people about what they felt on this subject.

I know many people who have been hurt and damaged by
"God bothering Sky Pilots" turning up when they have suffered heartache or trauma an making the most inappropriate and uncalled for comments about their beliefs. This shows the true and uncaring nature of some Christians, they only listen to what they want to hear or believe not the truth of the matter.

Yes some chaplains are good people Yes some Christians are kind and caring Yes some religions do go out of their way to do good things in times of trouble and hardship but that role is not exclusive to any religion or belief system. There are good bad kind and unkind in every group.

To say otherwise is just a pure fabrication, and Tim should remember telling lies is one of the top 10 things his beliefs tell him not to do.

If he has any guts he will make a retraction of his comments and apologize for spreading misinformation

I will not be holding my breath though !

Robert mentioned a link to the about section of SU Qld. Good thing few things on the internet ever disappear completly. this is the about section of SU Qld from 2009: http://web.archive.org/web/20090914023926/http://www.suqld.org.au/about/index.php?page=1

It says:
**
We exist in order to undertake our MISSION:
To see young lives transformed by engaging them with Jesus, the Bible and the local church.

As we engage in our mission, we will realise our VISION:
We want to see a transformed generation of young people impacting Queensland for the Kingdom of God.
**

Not to subtle about their MISSION.

I read here a lot of misinformed ignorant secular bigotry. I attend a Church who supplies a Chaplain to a local school. She is a trained school teacher, (one who would in the classroom have children in her care) who interviews parents with the child whose children have problems at school. No religious indoctrination of children! Do you intend to deny Christian teachers right to teach in Public Schools because they have influence over children.

Schools in Muslim areas have the right to employ Muslim Chaplains.

No thread about chaplaincy would be complete without reference to ACCESS head, Evonne Paddison's, speech to the Anglican Evangelical Fellowship.

Scroll down to highlighted text - although the speech in its entirety is revealing.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/55338278/ACCESS-ministry-s-head-Evonne-Paddison-s-speech-to-Anglican-Evangelical-Fellowship