Squeers

I agree with you about the lack of moral direction provided by the state and it seems to me that this is the result of the lack of any explicit ethical direction as a basis for capitalism, rather than socialism. Socialism is anti-religious but not anti-family and the implicit value in socialism is that we should share with others not rip them off for our own benefit.

It is so disapointing that churches and their counsellors provide only lip service support for the values that Jesus espoused. I don't see any Christians objecting to the 'temples of the money changers', and places like Hillsong appear to be in favour of the capitalist idea that anything that can be sold for a profit should be sold for a profit.

The problem I see with chaplains in schools is that they do not accept that their 'faith-based' help can be problematic and even damaging for some children. Whereas psychological approaches understand that some types of intervention can be counter-productive. As with doctors, psychologists do aim to "first, do no harm".

I don't worry that chaplains will have much success in converting non-christian kids to their way of thinking. Chaplains weren't in schools when my kids were there, but 'religious instructors' were and my kids choose to go to the religious classes, rather than the free-period that was offered as an alternative, just to get the chocolates and lollies that the 'instructors' handed out and to argue with the 'instructor'.

I do worry that there will be chaplains who will tell vulnerable kids that they will go to hell if they read books like 'Harry Potter'.

Squeers, there is a great deal of "moral" instruction offered to children in State education, at least here in Qld, anyway. It is offered in the form of specific instructions and injunctions rather than by providing a general philosophical background and a critical capacity.

It seems to me that most children depend on authority being handed down to keep them headed in the right direction. They're not capable of working it out for themselves yet. My own kids are 13 and 15 and they're only just starting to "get" a lot of the stuff I've been tryng to impart to them throughout their lives. they're both very good at thinking critically, but they lack the knowledge or experience to do so very usefully for anything complex.

I don't really want the SU people to be given carte blanche to provide their own view willy-nilly. It's hard enough for them to understand some of the worst effects of their mother's neurotic behaviour without adding another layer of unreality. Why make their job harder than it needs to be?

Give them a basic education and good guidance on behaviour at school and leave the rest to parents.

Ammonite
'Atheist Chaplain' is an oxymoron but such a configuration (if possible) would drive the pro-Chaplain lobby into apoplexy despite assurances that the purpose is purely support and counselling.

It still beggars belief that we are having these discussions in a civislised society. Countries that embrace secularism are more democratic and egalitarian than where there is a fundamentalist society where separation between Church and State is poor and people are forced to conform or face the consequences. While we are not at this stage in our society, the ACL is fond of using the phrase 'slippery slope' but are blind to where this sort of dogma can lead at its worst manifestation.

John Howard and the later ALP PM's have a lot to answer for. Having seen so much waste in the APS I can think of many more worthy projects this money could be allocated. Given there are to be cuts to funding surely this program warrants a second look.

Antiseptic

Perhaps you'd be interested in this excerp from a Radio National program - or not. American philosopher and psychologist Alison Gopnik says that "literally from the time they're born, infants have capacities to empathise with the emotions and internal states of other people, and by the time they're 18 months old, perhaps even a bit younger, children show signs of altruism. So that they'll actively act to help another person achieve their ends or achieve their goals."

There is such a lot to learn about how children develop and to believe that what was done in the past, that worked for you, is enough for everyone is just plain silly. Get over your yearning for the past, and learn some new stuff.

Read more or listen at http://www.abc.net.au/rn/philosopherszone/stories/2011/3290167.htm