Dear Ben,

"So we must never question the atheist messiah, Gillard?".

Very good. A laugh on many levels. Thank you Mr Colbert.

So to say that it’s not convincing (particularly when those who have the burden of proof have not yet supplied the slightlest shred of it) shows an astonishing level of ignorance.
Posted by AJ Philips, Tuesday, 17 May 2011 9:29:33 AM

The 'evidence' exists within an individual's/believer's own relationship with God AJ Philips. That's what you have never understood from OLO participants comments, who are believers.

There is no requirement or necessity for people who are believers, to deliver or produce 'evidence' that God exists.

If you have no fear regarding God, why shoot down in flames, labelling people as ignoramuses, who are believers given their relationship and experiences with God. ie, the non fanatical (religious or not).

I do not think any less of people who are athiests or non-believers, and hold no fear of people being athiests.

Were you burnt somewhere along the lines regarding faith (in God), by people who are religious, or your education or upbringing OR are you one of those people who cannot observe, think or look outside the square, requiring every tangible piece in a jigsaw to be present, prior to working out what the actual jigsaw picture is?

Do you live your life weighing up every situation in minute detail before making a decision or are you able to make calculated decisions?

These are heart to heart questions by the way AJ not having a go at you. I work with scientists, some believers, some non-believers, and fully comprehend there are people in this world whereby they cannot envision any other being or foreign being existing outside their own world.

The problem is, AJ, don't suffer too much of a shock/heart attack/ stroke, IF a few spaceships appear one day with their pellets, dropping them randomly on different countries!

Another example whereby 'one' does not require tangible shreds to close the book on the concept of foreign beings existing out there in the beautiful universe (ie outside our own planet)!

Its always wise to think a little, outside the square, or beyond our own little worlds and atmospheres.

Pardon my French but what a lot of bollocks!

Faith, beliefs, risks and calculated decisions all factored into the first space shuttle take-off.

Inventors, Engineers and Scientists do not sit around awaiting 'evidence' AJ.

Ditto for every invention successfully achieved.

There is no evidence that a certain invention (after spending time, resources and money)will ever eventuate or be successful.

Faith, belief and thinking 'outside the square/norm'

Setting aside religion, I wonder if we can examine the concept of faith.

In an earlier post on this thread (on comments page 6), suzeonline spoke of death, and of a range of observed responses to its approach. This prompted me to do some soul-searching, and to post (on comments page 7) a possible alternative view.

From my own experience, as the potential conclusion of our span approaches, our contemplation of life lived, of relationships, regrets and guilts accelerates, and we search for a satisfactory winding-down or a last spurt to fulfill bypassed ambitions.

In making this examination, I have considered just how very fortunate we are to exist, to have the capabilities we possess, and the very environment with which we have been endowed, and I have tried to evaluate whether mere chance is a satisfactory explanation for all this. In the end result I don't think it really matters whether we accept chance as a satisfactory explanation, or not, or if we think this may be just a little too coincidental. The essential thing may be that we should at least be cognizant of the extraordinary nature of the coincidence of factors involved, and perhaps we should be just a little bit in awe.

I don't think people should dwell on historical legends, as I also think it ridiculous for people to maintain feuds over long past injustices. Surely it should be sufficient to have a sense of gratitude, and perhaps a sense of responsibility, for this amazing inexplicable gift.

For all I may have puzzled, I would only ask that you contemplate the existence of the electromagnetic curtain which protects us from deadly blasts of cosmic radiation (and also enables so many species to unerringly navigate the globe), the balance of our particular placement within such an enormous expanse, the existence of our moon to generate tides and ocean currents, our surprising atmosphere and oceans, and the very existence of life itself.

Could it be perhaps, that we are truly blessed?

Okay, I'll (a little reluctantly) stand up and be counted.
I'm an atheist who has -quite recently- started to pray.
I have found the essential problem with internal debate is the absolute equality of both sides, making resolution virtually impossible. By assigning notional identities to both sides ('me' and 'God') I have found resolutions to be remarkably forthcoming.
Do I believe I am actually having a conversation with God? Not at all (although I can't with absolute certainty discard the possibility).
The simple truth is, I find in choosing a course of action I will often go for the course which is expedient, or simply more palatable.
Often the 'right' course is also the more difficult course.
In this, my 'God' is simply more objective; indeed, it would be more correct to label my 2 identities as 'subjective' and 'objective', but 'me' and 'God' is simply shorter -and who knows? Tying up one's camel is simply good sense...
I would suggest an atheist's prayers in this respect are quite possibly more efficacious than a True Believer's.
I've never ceased to be amazed at how the the True Believer's God is always so perfectly in agreement with the True Believer.