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The Forum > Article Comments > Be a Real Man > Comments

Be a Real Man : Comments

By Mary Elias, published 31/1/2011

Portrayals of violence against women can never be condoned, not even on artistic grounds.

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Great example, Clownfish - roped man hung upside down on a meat hook, images of torturing blokes, references to water boarding a bloke, cutting the bloke loose at the end so he'll bash his brains out on a concrete floor, and a woman in charge of all of it.

Why aren't MTR and her followers calling for this to be banned?

This banning the KanYe West thing has been going on for weeks. See my *Flesh eating coffins and women in masks* article in OLO 23rd December 2010

http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=11411

The summary of a long tussle that went on about this with MTR and followers when she published an article in the Drum about the video.
Posted by briar rose, Monday, 31 January 2011 8:22:59 AM
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Why is it ok for feminists to tell men to be a real man and protect women? Are they fragile things who need men to rescue them? Wanting to be treated like equals means never playing the helpless female.
Posted by benk, Monday, 31 January 2011 8:32:56 AM
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Antiseptic - So you have a problem with Catholics... whatever... but religion has nothing to do with the fact that the release of the video is promoting a very sick form of violence

person - clearly the reference to Criminal Minds is not a serious source, it is just pushing the point that one must be very naive not to recognise that the themes in the video are not healthy

briar rose - so an inclusion of violence against men makes the content in the video justified? The fact is, the women behaving in a violent manner is also supposed to be erotic - which is equally degrading.
Posted by Mary Elias, Monday, 31 January 2011 9:21:53 AM
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Well, Mary I don't agree with your premise that either video is intended primarily to be *erotic.*

if that is the intention, then they fail dismally.

I think both videos are expressing the writer/performers' vision of various complex situations, including their visions of relations between women and men, race relations, the nature of the music industry,and popular culture.

I don't think Cilmi's quite gets there, it's not very clever, a bit too obvious, but the KanYe West certainly raises these themes in a very confronting way.

You don't see any of this in either video - you see only sexual and gender based denigration and eroticized violence.

It's like reducing The Tempest to a feminist analysis - that is one analysis, but only one of many.

So anybody else who sees anything else is in a creative work is not to be allowed access to it, because your perception of the material rules? No other perception matters, only yours?
I can't watch KanYe West because you see something different to what I see?

How do you justify that tyranny?

And if you want to rid the world of images that are offensive to you on your particular grounds, you'll be having big burnings of the contents of every art gallery in the world and millions of movies since the original Dracula.

These things are creative visions, some good, some bad, some neither one nor the other. They express what's going on in somebody's head. Other people say, hey that represents what goes on in my head too, and others say, nothing like that ever goes on in my head and it shouldn't go on in anybody else's.

Read Aristotle about catharsis. People have dark imaginings - its part of being human - its a very different thing from actually doing something
Posted by briar rose, Monday, 31 January 2011 10:05:47 AM
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Mary,

I signed your petition. Please see entry 5785.

Just to clarify your intriguing comment though..

'so an inclusion of violence against men makes the content in the video justified? The fact is, the women behaving in a violent manner is also supposed to be erotic - which is equally degrading.'

I don't think briar was saying the violence by women justifies anything, I see it as more a query as to why only the violence by women was a concern to you and the only thing you noted.

I am also interested, as to why young girls don't seem to be influenced to be a 'real woman' when they watch the Cilmi video. Is it because the Cilmi video is empowering and liberating?

'The fact is, the women behaving in a violent manner is also supposed to be erotic - which is equally degrading.'

Degrading to women or men? If it's degrading to men, how come you're not interested in mentioning the female violence in the Kanye video briar mentioned?

BTW: If Kanye wanted to show he was a 'real man', I'm sure he would just expose his penis. A penis is all that is required to prove man-hood. Or do you define what a 'real' man is in some other way? How does a 'real man' differ from a woman, or a fake man?

Ah, so many questions....

'... it’s just wrong. ' ; Compelling argument.

'Are you really comfortable with an underage teen growing up thinking it is normal to have sexual fantasies over a dead body? '

Please define 'normal' sexual fantasies?

'Violence against women is not entertainment. It never was, and it never will be. '
But there was no actual violence. They can do all sorts of things with makeup and trick camera work these days. Unless you count violently shoving thousands of dollars into the corpse-models purses.
Posted by Houellebecq, Monday, 31 January 2011 10:08:13 AM
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the right to feeding ones sick little mind is far more important to many than the welfare of human beings. Look at the many who flock to ga ga concerts.
Posted by runner, Monday, 31 January 2011 10:35:03 AM
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