RichardJoachim, if the discussion is not left open, then what is the point of having an on-line discussion?

I do not consider myself to be anti-anything, at least on this issue. But from the information that I get (news reports etc.) both sides seem to have their issues.

Hamas is by no means a benevolent organisation, they are rightly classified as terrorists. Also, as with any political discussion, all sides will be selective with the information that they make public. It would be fair to say that all governments have been deceitful (that includes the Israeli, American, Australian, French governments etc.), some more so than others.

Hamas exists by fomenting and benefiting from conflict. They have chosen violence and the world should rightly condemn them. I am sure there are some on the Palestinian side that reject violence yet their cause is continually hampered by violence and injustices from both sides.

Also, as you say, perhaps its best to leave it to the people directly involved to sort out. The international community and the US in particular have spent so much time, effort and resources that it beggars belief to expect anything when it seems we end up at square one every time.

http://currentglobalperceptions.blogspot.com/

Thank you, jorge,

I certainly didn't mean that we can't talk about it, I can't remember who said it but "jaw-jaw is better than war-war" (some pre WWII US President I think). I detest war - even though they are sometimes necessary, and I've been in two of them - and I detest acts of terrorism and wanton destruction even more.

All I meant was the world should stop interfering and trying to 'force' a settlement. If it's to be it will happen naturally and organically, if that makes sense to you.

#AlisonGraham

At last someone is prepared to address my article. Let me answer your criticisms by reprinting your post in full and posting my replies in CAPITALS.

I will break the reply into three parts because of word limits for each post.

PART 1

>Jew-hating States

Character assassination.

WANTING TO KICK OUT 500000 JEWS FROM THEIR HOMES HARDLY QUALIFIES THEM AS JEW LOVERS. THEY SHOULD BE EXPOSED TO UNIVERSAL CONDEMNATION.

>requires both areas to be completely cleared of Jews.

As opposed to clearing areas of Palestinians?

FURPHY. I AM TALKING ABOUT BRAZIL AND ARGENTINA’S EXPRESSED POLICY. WHAT HAS YOUR COMMENT GOT TO DO WITH THAT?

Interesting map:

http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/cgi-bin/blogs/media/landloss.gif

IN FACT - THERE ARE ACTUALLY FOUR MAPS EACH OF WHICH CONTAINS THE FOLLOWING MISINFORMATION AND PROPAGANDA :

MAP 1 - PALESTINE IN 1945 INCLUDED TRANSJORDAN WHICH DID NOT BECOME INDEPENDENT UNTIL 1946. TRANSJORDAN DOES NOT APPEAR ON THE MAP. ONLY 8% OF THE LAND SHOWN AS “PALESTINIAN LAND” WAS ARAB OWNED. THE REST WAS STATE LAND AND WASTE LAND VESTED IN BRITAIN AS MANDATORY AUTHORITY.

MAP 2 - THE UN PLAN IN 1947 RECOMMENDED A JEWISH STATE AND AN ARAB STATE BE ESTABLISHED. THERE WAS NO PLACE THEN CALLED "ISRAEL" OR "PALESTINE" AS DESIGNATED ON THE MAP. DESIGNATING LAND AS "PALESTINIAN LAND " IS FALSE AND MISLEADING.

MAP 3 - THE AREA DESIGNATED AS "PALESTINE" WAS OCCUPIED BY TRANSJORDAN AND UNIFIED IN 1950 WITH THE EAST BANK. ITS THEN NAME - "JUDEA AND SAMARIA" -WAS DROPPED BY THE ARABS AND THE TERM "WEST BANK" ADOPTED. TRANSJORDAN'S NAME WAS CHANGED TO JORDAN.

MAP 4 - THE LAND IS NEITHER "JEWISH LAND" NOR "PALESTINIAN LAND" IT IS DISPUTED TERRITORY CLAIMED BY BOTH JEWS AND ARABS.

>There were no "1967 borders"

Fact: The area was 10% Jewish last century. Now it has been colonized by supremacists from other nations.

FURPHY. WAS THERE A 1967 BORDER OR ONLY A DEMARCATION LINE? IS THAT TOO HARD FOR YOU TO ANSWER?

#AlisonGraham

PART 2

>either having to voluntarily leave or be forcibly removed from their homes and businesses.

It was never theirs if they stole it.

THEY DIDN’T STEAL IT. SOVEREIGNTY STILL REMAINS UNDETERMINED AND TO BE ALLOCATED BETWEEN JEWS AND ARABS PURSUANT TO THE TERMS OF THE MANDATE AND THE UN CHARTER.

>Brazil's decision - which smacks of the infamous Nazi "Judenrein"

More character assassination and use of the Holocaust to justify Palestinian genocide.

BRAZIL SUPPORTS A POLICY OF CLEARING ALL THE JEWS FROM THE WEST BANK. THAT IS THE IDENTICAL POLICY THE NAZIS PURSUED.

>Article 6 of the Mandate for Palestine - which recognized the right of the Jewish people to reconstitute the Jewish National Home in precisely the area that Brazil now wants to see cleared of Jews -

No one has the right to pass a law, to steal or genocide another race.

THE MANDATE WAS CREATED AT THE SAME TIME AS THE ARABS WERE GIVEN SIMILAR RIGHTS OF SELF DETERMINATION AS THE JEWS, THE ARABS GOT 99.999% OF THE CONQUERED OTTOMAN EMPIRE AND THE JEWS 0.001% - THEIR BIBLICAL AND ANCESTRAL HOMELAND. NOT A BAD DEAL FOR THE ARABS BUT THEY HAVE NEVER BEEN ABLE TO ACCEPT THE DECISION OF THE LEAGUE OF NATIONS AND UNITED NATIONS. YOU ARE ENTITLED TO SUPPORT THE ARAB REJECTION OF THIS SUBDIVISION. REJECTION HAS BROUGHT THE ARABS - AND THE JEWS - NOTHING BUT DEATH AND SUFFERING.

I HAVE REPLIED TO YOUR CLAIM OF STEALING ABOVE. THE CLAIM OF GENOCIDE IS DEALT WITH BELOW.

>Argentina has been quick to follow Brazil's headlong rush into outing itself as a fellow "Jew-hating state"

Character assassination.

THEY ARE HARDLY JEW-LOVERS

>One cannot stop people or States being "Jew-haters"

Character assassination.

THEY CERTAINLY AREN’T JEW LOVERS

>such "hatred" is State-sponsored

Character assassination and intimidation.

THAT IS THE PRICE BRAZIL AND ARGENTINA MUST PAY

>"Racism and vilification" of this kind have no place in the Government of any State.

Character assassination.

DO YOU THINK JEW-HATING SHOULD BE STATE SPONSORED?

(To be continued ...)

#AlisonGraham

PART 3

>Standing by and doing nothing will only stigmatize those other States as "closet Jew-haters".

Character assassination and intimidation.

STATES REMAINING SILENT BECOME COMPLICIT IN THE EXPRESSED POLICIES OF JEW HATERS.

>All three countries became places of refuge for fleeing Nazis at the conclusion of World War II. Their shadowy past seems to be coming back to haunt them.

Character assassination.

ARE YOU PROGRAMMED TO MAKE JUST ONE RESPONSE. DO BRAZIL AND ARGENTINA HAVE A SHADOWY PAST AS NAZI HAVENS OR NOT?

>once again sends a dangerous message of support to the 21 Jew-hating States

Character assassination.

THE ARAB LEAGUE HAS REFUSED TO RECOGNIZE ISRAEL AS THE JEWISH NATIONAL HOME FOR THE LAST 63 YEARS. THIS REFUSAL IS THE ROOT CAUSE FOR THE CONFLICT STILL CONTINUING TODAY. THE LEAGUE STANDS CONDEMNED.

>both areas to be completely cleared of Jews.

Emotional blackmail and use of the Holocaust, to justify theft and genocide of Palestinians.

SEE EARLIER COMMENTS

In case people are unaware of the Lemkin definition of Genocide, look it up here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide

Lemkin was a Jewish man that successfully campaigned for the UN Genocide Laws to be put in place. So if anyone understood how Genocide is conducted, he did.

THE WEST BANK ARABS ARE INCREASING IN NUMBERS - HOW IS THAT GENOCIDE?

95% OF THEM ARE UNDER THE COMPLETE ADMINISTRATIVE CONTROL OF THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY WHO RULE THEIR EVERYDAY LIVES. HOW IS THAT GENOCIDE?

IF THEY EXHIBITED PEACEFUL INTENTIONS THE PA WOULD FULLY CONTROL THEIR SECURITY AS WELL. AT THE PRESENT TIME 55% OF THE WEST BANK ARAB POPULATION IS UNDER THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY’S FULL PROTECTION. HOW IS THAT GENOCIDE?

THEY HAVE THE PA, A PRIME MINISTER AND A GOVERNMENT TO DETERMINE THEIR PRESENT AND FUTURE. HOW IS THAT GENOCIDE?

THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY IS HOST TO A BEVY OF WORLD LEADERS WHO FRONT UP TO RAMALLAH EVERY DAY. THE PA ENJOY ACCESS TO THE WORLD’S CAPITOLS.HOW IS THAT GENOCIDE?

THE WORLD MEDIA IS THERE IN DROVES. HOW COULD GENOCIDE BE OCCURRING AS THE PA BASKS IN THE WORLD'S SPOTLIGHT?

GET REAL.

david singer,

No evidence will change certain people. These people fall under the umbrella of conspiracy theorists.

rexw believes that the US and Israel masterminded the 11/9 horror. It is incredible that such people exist ... but they do. To debate them is useless.

Perhaps those suspicious of Israel should ask themselves why is it after $billions have been poured in the never ending black hole of Palestinian territories, that many 100s of Palestinians on the West Bank enter Israel each day to work. Answer: a) they are welcomed, b) they get equitable wages with everyone else, and c) they also get the benefits all Israelis enjoy, such as medical benefits, etc.

Let's not forget the criminal and/or incompetent Palestinan leaders; the hatreds between different Palestinian groups which erupted into civil war requiring a fatwa to prevent the massive exodus of Palestinians from their territories.

Perhaps the answer is for Egypt and Jordan to resume control of the territories they held prior to the Six-day War. In sixty years we have witnessed the US move from civil right disasters to a black president. Exactly what has been achieved in Palestinian territories?
A non-Jewish senior official observed that Palestinians envied Israel's progress ... that if Israel had not become a vibrant society, Palestinians would not be interested in their territory.

Ask any Palestinian what they think of the Arab States ... then duck. Arab States treat Palestinians as detritus; indeed, after generations born in these territories, Palestinians are not eligible for citizenship, and thus normal benefits. Arab States prefer to bring in guest workers, offering amazing perks, rather than employ Palestinians. Of course, there is the problem now - Palestinians are restricted from higher education. A survey should be taken of the varieties of employment available to Palestinians. Indeed, a journalistic expose of the entire sorry saga ...