"If you follow the news for just one week, you'll learn who are worse at committing crimes of violence - they're men!" Strangely enough when you consider other demographics over represented in crime figures we that seems to be seen as a symptom of disadvantage.

"The changes brought about by feminists have all been positive and just" - spoken like a true believer. No possibility that the changes have ever gone to far? Those women who have been harrassed by feminists over choices to be full time parents deserved everything they got did they?

"that violence has never resolved anything!" - me I'm rather glad that our side were willing to use violence to stand against Nazi Germany. I'm rather glad that the police use violence at times to stop those who would otherwise dominate the rest of us. Maybe some word play around the term resolved but as an absolute it does not stand up to well.

"with the belief, that women were not put on this planet for their use and benefit. That it's OK, desirable even, to have women as friends" - I'm working on instilling those values in my son as well.

"and while men think that they have a divine right to 'take sex' or diminish women and girls" - which men? I don't personally know any men who think that they have a divine right to 'take sex'. Maybe some who might be accussed of diminishing women by those women who don't want to be treated as equal's but expect to be treated as better than others and beyond challenge.

And maybe
"Some women think, that if women are treated as equal human beings, they'll lose something valuable to them."

percusso, I don't think that we have reached that day. It's still widely accepted that it's not so bad to hit a male partner.

R0bert

@robert-Feminism is making your own decisions. Being seen by others as having that right. I don't recall 'feminists' castigating women who want to be full time parents. In fact, it's a female Minister who's furthering the cause, that it's important for men to bond with their babies/kids. You take the view of some women, some of them may or may not be feminists, and then tell me, that they were all the same. Tell me, if 100 men think it's OK to steal something from their workplace, does that mean that the other 900,000 believe it too? Your arguments don't have any reason, logic or reality.
In what other areas has 'feminism' gone too far? Demanding equal pay? The right to tertiary education? The right over their bodies?
What else. Don't make wide sweeping statements lumbering all feminists in the same boat. One in 4 men bash their parners/wives. Do you want me to lumber you in with them? You'd be outraged and rightly so!
It is not widely accepted to hit a male partner, or any one else for that matter. However, nobody would insist, that a woman being bashed doesn't have the right to defend herself, or retaliate - usually to her detriment.
Have you read any of the millions of articles about domestic violence?

Too many men think it's OK to speak in a derogatory manner about women. Over 180,000 women(at least)in this country who are raped each year - this is not the total number. The male perpetrators of those rapes think it's OK to use their power to violate women - that's what rape is about, power and control - not about sexual pleasure! You don't think that way, and you don't know men who've behaved this way - great - but they're out there! A male bashed a great-grandmother yesterday - a male?
Follow the news for just one week, on the ABC not channel?

As I've said on earlier posts, I was exposed to domestic violence for over 20 years. It's not just the violence, although that's horrific, it's not knowing when he'll 'erupt'? It could be because you were late home - no excuse is good enough. Or, the meal is late, again, no excuse. Or it's the time taken to care for my Mum before my father died - 3 years.I was treated as though I'd deliberately brought this scourge into the family and mucked up the daily routine(only his was important). It could be anything of such a trivial nature, that you could never pre-empt it. I slowly realised, that not only could I not win, I was never meant to. It was my friends - his home his castle, and he'd embarras my friends by stating this and asking them to leave. Being accused of being a lesbian because I liked to spend time with women friends. You name it he did it. Clothes for the kids. He could spend a week of 'avoidal programming' to let me know how he felt about my unrealistic demands - shoes, underclothes etc for his kids. On and on it went, to the point, where I seriously thought I was going mad. I'd lie awake for hours (on the other side of my head that he'd wacked, as it hurt so much I couldn't use a comb for several) days thinking of ways to avoid these 'situations'? Never worked, was never meant to!
These people are sociopaths. The whole of their life must be focused on them, regardless of if their child has a life threatening illness or their wife is in extreme pain or a car accident was the reason why I was late home. It's a psychiatric problem that doesn't change unless they acknowledge its existence and seek to change it - he hasn't done that as far as I'm aware, and his behaviour today doesn't exhibit this self analysis, let alone any remorse!They're either amazingly arrogant or psychiatrically devoid of any form of understanding, compassion or fairness. None!

Liz "Don't make wide sweeping statements lumbering all feminists in the same boat." I've never lumped all feminists in the same boat, that's your misrepresentation of what I'm saying.

"Over 180,000 women(at least)in this country who are raped each year - this is not the total number" - You might care to check that number again and possibly ask about the difference between assault and rape. The real figures are way too high but again you have misrepresented it to make it seem even worse. FYI the 2005 Personal Safety Survey put the total of women experiencing sexual assault at 101,600
(http://www.ausstats.abs.gov.au/Ausstats/subscriber.nsf/0/056A404DAA576AE6CA2571D00080E985/$File/49060_2005%20%28reissue%29.pdf)

"One in 4 men bash their parners/wives." The same survey puts the total proportion of women who had experienced physical assault in the previous 12 months at 3.1% (almost 1/3 of those by a stranger). Around 800,000 women have experienced some form of physical violence from a current or former male partner since the age of 15 - the estimated population of Australia in June 2005 was just over 20 million (that 1 in 4 is looking a bit shaky).

The real figures are horrible but the propensity of some feminists to misrepresent and exaggerate them is also disgusting.

I'd suggest that you check the numbers I've mentioned and if they are valid (I hope so) have a think about what that tells you about how you see the world.

R0bert

Liz just after I posted my previous post I spotted yours.

It does sound like you had a horrific time and I don't want to appear dismissive of your pain. I can relate to some parts of what you describe although not to the same extreme's. A shorter marriage and probably a more decent ex.

Most of what you describe are issues experienced to differing degrees by people of bother genders. About the only real difference is at the extreme end of the violence range, women come off worse there.

Not all men from bad marriages are like your ex, the behaviors you describe are not male attributes, they are human failure.

R0bert

RObert-If you put Domestic Violence into your search engine, you'll come up with millions of articles - some are surveys. I believe,that the 1 in 3 stats for physical abuse,and the 1 in 4 for girls and 1-5 for boys(by age 18)sexual abuse are correct.
The stats I gave were part of a speech by Nicola Roxon a couple of yrs ago-she stated that the reported crimes were only 10% of reality-at least.Only 10% go to court,and only a small number are the perps convicted.We recently had a case,where due to the young woman wearing skinny jeans,and the Judge admitting that he couldn't have removed them without assistance, showed her consent. She was 43 Kgs. No witnesses to explain the issue - just appalling.Another, was due to victim being 'unconscious' she hadn't refused, so it was only a 'technical rape'? whatever that is. Thankfully, in NSW consent has to be given,and people have the right to change their mind at ANY stage.
There still exists the view,that men can't stop - that is rubbish and a 'good excuse' that just doesn't wash anymore.
It's been my experience over 40+ yrs,that when 4 or 6 women are in a group and feel safe, at least one of them will reveal either sexual or physical abuse either as kids or adults, or both. This fits with most investigations into both types of abuse.
As a woman, I'd be more likely for other women to confide in than you'd experience. The stats made by Kevin Rudd in '09, plus the Vic Health stats, together with those in other states and countries uphold these assertions.