Now here’s the conundrum for average straight guy…he doesn’t know how many mature gays he meets, as in being emotionally mature, they have no need of such flamboyant conduct. But if what is noticed is the flamboyant and immature behaviors of SOME gays, then what is it that you find yourself associating to them? Immature sexual flamboyance, and for most people, that would not be a suggestion of good role-modelling as a parental figure. And rightly so, it’s not. But I hasten to add, that emotionally immature heterosexuals are not good role-models for parenting either, but they get away with it, for they don’t have to adopt from being able to procreate. I’m not saying that it’s right, I’m saying that’s just the way it is, by nature of what we’re talking about.

So in effect, I’m saying give the “homophobe” a break. Many can’t identify what it is that makes them uncomfortable, and so identify what is obvious…the sexual orientation. But I truly believe most don’t recognize that they are only noticing the emotionally immature gays, extrapolating that as the norm for the entire gay community, when that is clearly not the case.

As an aside, the word “homophobe” is not a technical term but a slang term. It cannot mean the fear of gays, for technically, it must mean the fear of Mankind, if you break the word down to its Latin roots. It’s the addition of the suffix “-phobe” to an abbreviation of the word "homosexual", and I would guess, originally coined by a gay. The people that are predominately termed “homophobes” are NOT fearful of gays, but in fact the opposite could well be argued, but are repulsed by either the idea of the sexual activity or the flamboyant behaviour, or both, and some, react to it in their own immature manner with derogatory comments, or worse.

TBC...

So in conclusion, what I’d like to say is that in the gay community there are many poor examples of parental role models easily identified, but I hasten to add that that is not representative of the entire gay community. Ergo, it’s absolutely fine for there to be gay couples in parenting roles. But there are many examples amongst the gay community AND the hetero community, that just shouldn’t be allowed to adopt kids.

That’s the difficulty of the issue….no-one knows what goes on behind closed doors, and the miscreants of society were born from “conventional” couples, so let’s face it, the gay and lesbian community couldn’t do any worse. Personally, I don’t give a rat’s what a person does with their sexual organs, so long as minors aren’t involved. And to be homosexual, is totally different to being a paedophile. Adoption is about emotionally mature, loving couples, being able to provide a nurturing environment. So IMO, so long as you’re not a paedophile, and are emotionally mature and able to provide such an environment, then your sexual orientation is of no relevance.

Bach,
Exodus 22:21 You shall neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him: for you were strangers in the land of Egypt.

Your religious text forbids you from applying your morality to those who do not belong to your way of life. Remember in biblical times homosexuality was acceptable amongst many of Israels neighbours and regional powers in places like Athens, Sparta, Rome, Egypt, Babylon and much more. Yet God said not to vex or oppress people who live their lives differently which quite literally must have included Gay and Bisexual and Transgender people because that's how many of Israels neighbours were! Please start following your bible.

Mathew 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law of the prophets.

Jesus told you not to oppose Gay peoples relationships and rights unless you would want your own taken away from you. Please start following the teachings of Jesus.

See folks this is why most christians are pro-gay. Because the bible actually tells them not to oppress the rights of others and to treat them fairly even if they eat pork and shrimp (also abominations in leviticus! No bacon-eater has the right to condemn gays based on old-testament rules!). The bible gives rules to live by that can completely fit in with a secular multi-cultural multi-faith gay-accepting society. These rules, treating others as equals and being nice to them as you want them to be nice to you is called Reciprocal Ethics and was one of the founding principles of Human Rights and centuries ago!

MindlessCruelty,

Your analysis of the term homophobe is incorrect. Many words in english are totally different from their source. Terrific means really good? Comes from the word Terror! Awful means really bad? It comes from Full of Awe! Thing is an object? Actually it started as a parliament!

Some technical terms
Photophobia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photophobia "Photophobia is a symptom of excessive sensitivity to light and the aversion to sunlight or well-lit places. In ordinary medical terms photophobia is not a morbid fear or phobia, but an experience of discomfort or pain to the eyes due to light exposure."

Hydrophobia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrophobia_%28disambiguation%29
Hydrophobia or hydrophobe may refer to:

* Rabies, especially a set of symptoms of the later stages of an infection, in which the victim has difficulty swallowing, shows panic when presented with liquids to drink, and cannot quench his or her thirst.
* Phobia of water (this is mainly colloquial, phobia of water is usually called aquaphobia, see below, to differentiate it from rabies.)
* Aquaphobia, a morbid fear of water, or of swimming.
* Hydrophobe, a term used in chemistry to describe chemical "aversions" of a molecule or part of a molecule

Xenophobia: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/xenophobia
an unreasonable fear or hatred of foreigners or strangers or of that which is foreign or strange

the word homophobia came from xenophobia. Note irrational hatred. Of course as 83% of anti-gay people tested were sexually aroused by homoerotic images it should be defined often as a form of fear of and hatred of those who remind them of the hated/repressed part of themselves.

Oh and the flagrant identification of some gay people? Well thats usually a way they overcome their own homophobia, by not being ashamed but proud of being what they are. Of course heterosexuality is everywhere in every tv-show magazine billboard and childrens fairy tale book all pushing a commonality as instead a universality. When gays are as visible as heteros it often looks more out of place to someone used to their invisibility. As for S&M etc and openess about sexuality you don't know the heterosexuals i do. Maybe it's an age thing?

briar rose:>> How many homosexuals do you know?<<

From my first day to 8 years old I lived five minutes from Taylor Square (Oxford Street Sydney). Then from 12 through to 20 I again lived back at 5 minutes from Taylor Square. Then I moved to Strawberry Hills and then into the suburbs at thirty, I got sick of the city.

I will happily trade you experiences and interactions in the gay community if you want. I had an after school/ late shopping night/ Saturday morning gig at the Franklins Supermarket in Oxford street(the top one, not the one near Hyde Park, two back then of course) and the loading dock was shared by Cappricios one of the first gay clubs in Oxford street. Mal from Cappricios who did some cooking some cleaning some drag act and all the loading dock would try to "crack on to me" (I was a teen then, hence the crack on bit) at least twice a week. I knew all the gay business people back then and all the dirty laundry both personal and public. Sometimes I knew who killed who before the police did. If you lived there all the stuff that happens in the city to everyone else, happened just down the road for me.

I recall when the pubs in Oxford Street went from gunnies and blue collar to gay, I drank in them before gay and I drank in them after gay, I made friends in them before and I made friends in them after.

I grew up with the gay movement, they lived in my street. I have said nothing about homosexuals not being able to perform the parental role with the diligence and emotional support required, I just do not believe the prejudice will ebb. There are a finite number of homosexuals wanting to adopt children, so it will never be common, it will always be a singularity that brings issues to the child. That is my only concern

bach - you ask me what I think about "swingers' clubs?"

I don't think anything usually, but since you asked the question I've been forced to consider my ethical position.
But I need more information from you:
1. What exactly is it that they are swinging? Because if it's small people or animals then that's appalling and I can't go along with that.
2. If they are swinging clubs around their heads, or stock whips or any other inanimate object, that' all right, provided they aren't aiming them at any sentient beings.

Like we used to say to our kids, it's all good fun till someone loses an eye.

You seem quite one-eyed in your take on sexual love and its expression. Did you lose an eye through swinging too much?