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The Forum > Article Comments > The masculinity crisis > Comments

The masculinity crisis : Comments

By Warwick Marsh, published 17/6/2010

The crises in masculinity and men’s health are closely related to the rampant discrimination men endure at the hands of the system.

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Suze

Excellent posts. Notice how sensitive AGIR is to comments threatening "male leadership" - tut tutting away like an old rooster.

Arthur N

While there is no doubt that sporting heroes and pretty girls are in many ways synonymous - that is a small part of the diversity of experiences children have in reaching adulthood. Not all pretty girls want a sports star on their arm, in fact I suggest, that men tend to desire acceptance by other men as being more an acknowledgement of "masculinity". And a limited one at that. Look at the furore that has resulted in the past whenever women are included in many endeavours that were considered the realm of the male, from politics to heading companies or scaling mountains and single-handed yachting. Just as we have expanded the horizons for women, so too we need emancipation for men.

In complete opposition to the 50's version of masculinity espoused by Marsh, we require men who are far more than such tight-lipped, stern jawed stereotypes. Most men want to feel accepted if they do have emotional responses to experiences rather than conform to a limited and anachronistic mode for male behaviour.

Most men are managing to do this - although it is not an easy path when role models are limited to so-called 'power' types such as sport-stars, CEO's or political leaders.

The major crisis being experienced by men are those who think in the same terms as Warwick Marsh. Most men are now free to enjoy being an active involved fathers, showing their emotions and being friends with the women in their lives rather overlords.
Posted by Severin, Friday, 18 June 2010 10:54:30 AM
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Severin you express it very well, I liked your last paragraph and it is a very important observation.

Despite all the concerns Mr Marsh raises about masculinity, men are as Severin said much more free to openly enjoy being family men without the same pressures to be seen as macho men who don't change nappies who are down the pub with the blokes.

Granted we are a society in transition and issues of masculinity should not be devalued but we seem uncertain as to what is masculine. Some see it as being the head of the household. The Bible says some pretty disparaging things about women as posted by Suze above, which is not surprising given it was written in patriarchial times.

Marriages do better with equal respect and where decision making powers are shared. It is a partnership afterall.

As for health - men have always been backward in coming forward regarding personal health issues. Maybe now there is not this pressure to be macho (in most scenarios) men will take personal responsibility for their health. We are all responsible for our own health.

When have women's and men's roles really been static. The idea of women working out of the home is nothing new except for the privileged. Working class women and peasant societies always saw men and women in the fields often with babes in a sling or to one side.
Posted by pelican, Friday, 18 June 2010 3:16:23 PM
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Pelican

Thank you for your kind comments.

Your point regarding men's health reminded me of an article I read recently about the shame process and its impact on men seeking help for their physical and mental problems. This article is mostly confined to mental health issues and I believe is most pertinent to this thread:

"Shame may be the least understood dimension of men's inner experience—by both men themselves and the people who live with them. In Affliction, Russell Banks's classic novel about the tragedy of masculinity, a ne'er-do-well named Wade Whitehouse plans a special Halloween weekend with his 11-year-old daughter, Jill, who lives with her divorced mother, Lillian. Wade's clumsy efforts to make sure Jill has a good time succeed only in making her feel anxious and out of place, and she winds up pleading with him to take her home. But instead of her distress, what stands out for him is his sense of failure: he's shamed by the fact that she's unhappy."

and many would identify with this:

"Men often resist standard therapy because they have a hard time admitting that anything is wrong or, if they think something is wrong, they struggle to identify what it is. Another reason they avoid therapy is that they can't tolerate the internalized stigma—the felt shame—associated with feeling needy, dependent, or incompetent. A third disincentive, even with men who know they need help, is the very idea of sitting in a room, talking out loud about all this touchy-feely stuff; it creeps them out."

http://www.alternet.org/story/147105/shame-o-phobia%3A_why_men_fear_therapy?page=entire

I really urge all readers to read the article in full. This is a realistic look at the difficulties facing many men particularly compared to Warwick Marsh's narrow frame of reference.
Posted by Severin, Friday, 18 June 2010 3:35:12 PM
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Warwick,

A good article but how do you hope to compete with the millions upon millions of dollars propping up the women's industry? Children are now seen as the possessions of women and men are seen as just paychecks supporting womens 'entitlements'.

We could ask how did it come to this? After all, it was men who put men on the moon (women were obviously using their superior 'interpersonal skills' at the time). As one prominent feminist admitted, if it were up to women then we'd still be living in caves. It's true of course. But for 40 or 50 years now we've had this enormous industry propping up women's 'rights'. Yet if women are so equal then why do they need so many bureaucracies propping them up? The answer is of course that women aren't equal at all. I mean come on. It took 2500 years of civilisation for women to work out that they were getting the raw end of the deal. Yet we constantly get this smug sense of superiority from women claiming 'equality'!

I'll admit we're equal when I see women put woem on mars.
Posted by dane, Friday, 18 June 2010 4:35:49 PM
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What are you on about dane?

Women did not have equal participation in education, science or the workplace at the time of the moon landing. And so what! Do you dismiss lightly the work of other women such as Madame Curie, Dr Fiona Wood, Professor Fiona Stanley just to name a few.

Your criteria for fairness and equality is based on a very narrow view of 'worth'.

What about all the men who are not capable of putting others on the moon, do we also throw them on your human trash heap.

You probably don't mean to sound like a snob or a despot but that is how you come across.
Posted by pelican, Friday, 18 June 2010 4:49:07 PM
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Pelican is right Dane, you are being very narrow minded.

Do we need to go on about all the wars started my men, the atomic bombs, Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot and all the other violent old boys that did nothing but harm to the people of their world?

Women may be late starters in the scientific or political history of our world, but that is only because it is only fairly recently that we have been 'allowed' to have equal education and university opportunities.

I would hate to see an 'us versus them' situation develop in our world though.
I would hope that any discovery or invention would be developed by either men or women as a positive addition to all our lives.
Posted by suzeonline, Friday, 18 June 2010 5:03:19 PM
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